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Old 02-23-2009, 09:38 AM
 
898 posts, read 1,242,773 times
Reputation: 1007

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There have already been threads opened discussing the fact that the middle class is fleeing the suburbs of Los Angeles (in the L.A. forum), the fact that employers are hiring illegal immigrants in order to get cheap labor (in the general Politics and Other Controversies) and everyone in California that pays attention knows that the state was depending on illegal immigrant revenue to help balance the lack of revenue. The most common complaints are how they are a drain on the economy because they don't pay any taxes yet take full advantage of the programs that taxes pay for such as education and assistance for their children and help with their medical care. The lack of assimilation is no different than the lack of assimilation from any other group in this countries past and current history. If that were the case, there would be no Chinatowns or Little Italies or Korea Towns or Little Tokyos in this country. Besides, I don't know anyone of any "race" that doesn't enjoy a taco here and there so don't start derailing this thread with racist rederick.
So, they're here, they're not leaving, hardly any of us are doing anything to get them out and the INS sure isn't doing a good job of getting them out and keeping them out. So how do we turn the situation around? Building a wall isn't going to work and nobody wants to pay more taxes and you can't build some great wall at our southern border without rasing taxes.
In the end, the final solution seems, to me anyway, has to be amnesty. Amnesty would grant all these people social security numbers which would, in turn, give us more residents paying taxes. They would no longer need to accept payment under the table but if they did, then the IRS could audit them and make them pay penalties for not declaring them. You could even do the old bait and switch by making a "here by" date like the old amnesty and then charge them back taxes for the time that they have been here. Those who can't afford to pay the taxes would leave and those who can would stay.
Amnesty would also reduce the illegal alien population and give the INS a chance to get rid of the ones who don't qualify and trully crack down on the border.
For the record, I am an immigrant but neither I or any members of my family were ever here illegaly. We filed our papers, paid our money and waited close to ten years to get here. We flew, not walked accross the border and, though I am sympathetic to the reasons why people are forced to come here illegaly, I don't approve of anyone wasting their time once they get here or of their lack of parental skills resulting in their children becoming criminals. Neither do I approve of the lack of assimilation (you have to at least learn the lanugage of the country you're living in, for god's sakes) of any immigrant or of the abuse of government programs such as welfare by anyone, immigrant or not. Something needs to be done, though, and no politician is going to commit political suicide and say, "Get them all out". They want to be here, at least some of the population wants them here so that they can get cheap labor out of them so why not make them pay for being here through taxes?
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 15,868,944 times
Reputation: 3677
Why not? First of all, many of them are using fake documents (fake birth certificates, immigration papers, etc.) and identity theft to work here. A woman in our area had her identity stolen by an illegal immigrant and the IRS was making HER pay the $40,000 in back taxes that the Guatemalan immigrant racked up using her name. It was up to the VICTIM to prove that she wasn't working in the Northeast and not paying her taxes -- until it could be proven, she was responsible for the tax bill.

Do you REALLY want to give amnesty to people who have stolen the identities of American citizens and are breaking the law in umpteen ways while other people are OBEYING our laws and waiting until their immigration status is in order before they come?

Let me put it another way. If you owned a store, would you agree that shoplifters were just as entitled to the merchandise they stole as your paying customers were in paying for what they bought? What do you think would happen if that were the case? The paying customers would wonder why they were paying when you could apparently just walk in and steal what you wanted, so you would soon see fewer paying customers and more shoplifters. That would be great for business, huh?

Do you realize that about 30 percent of our prison population is comprised of illegal immigrants? We're NOT just attracting those poor, hard-working individuals who only want a better life -- we also get drug dealers, human smugglers, and criminals of every sort. Give them "amnesty" and we're stuck with them forever.

We need immigration laws to be enforced. Our country is not a free-for-all. For our own economy and social stability, we should only admit immigrants according to our societal needs and the numbers we can handle. The vast majority of the illegal immigrants are uneducated, unskilled laborers who are more of a drain on our society's services than contributing members. Giving these hordes blanket amnesty means that we are voluntarily importing millions of uneducated people from Latin America at the expense of admitting HIGHLY skilled, HIGHLY educated immigrants from Europe and Asia who WOULD contribute valuable expertise to our society and pay higher taxes.

So, why would anyone possibly advocate for shutting out high-skilled workers from other countries to cater to the poor, unskilled Latino masses? Hate to sound crass, but immigration is supposed to provide a balance and not simply bring in anyone who can run across our Border. Why give Latin America preference and discriminate against black, white and Asian immigrants in not having an equal chance of becoming part of American society? We don't owe Latin America anything.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
And the cold reality is that our deepening recession/depression is making it harder and harder for the illegal alien apologists to make their case.

Bottom line: it is past time for the hired help to go home; we have lots of Americans/green card holders who would be happier than pigs in slop to do those jobs that 'no Americans will do'-------read that better $7-10 an hour vs. no dollars per hour especially with the unemployment funds running out in several states.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 15,868,944 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
And the cold reality is that our deepening recession/depression is making it harder and harder for the illegal alien apologists to make their case.

Bottom line: it is past time for the hired help to go home; we have lots of Americans/green card holders who would be happier than pigs in slop to do those jobs that 'no Americans will do'-------read that better $7-10 an hour vs. no dollars per hour especially with the unemployment funds running out in several states.
Exactly right! And the good that may result from this economic crisis is all Americans will cut their grass and clean their own homes once again. Or, if they must hire help, they'll give the work to other Americans.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:50 AM
 
898 posts, read 1,242,773 times
Reputation: 1007
Identity theft happens whether illegal immigrants do it or not. As long as you have people who work for Social Security selling your number, it's not going to stop. As long as you have companies selling your information to each other, it's not going to stop. That's an entirely different discussion.

I agree on the criminal issue. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is caught comitting a crime should be immediately deported and measures should be taken to ensure that they don't come back. That doesn't include anything that warrants the life in prison or the death penalty because many countries will not place them in jail once deported and they won't extradite them.

My gard- sorry, he prefers landscaper- is white and so is my pool guy.

I'm just talking about taxes. Like I said, since no politician (especially none here in CA) wants to trully take the measures to crack down on the problem I say we get them paying taxes ASAP so that we can generate some much needed revenue.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmancomics View Post
Identity theft happens whether illegal immigrants do it or not. As long as you have people who work for Social Security selling your number, it's not going to stop. As long as you have companies selling your information to each other, it's not going to stop. That's an entirely different discussion.

I agree on the criminal issue. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is caught comitting a crime should be immediately deported and measures should be taken to ensure that they don't come back. That doesn't include anything that warrants the life in prison or the death penalty because many countries will not place them in jail once deported and they won't extradite them.

My gard- sorry, he prefers landscaper- is white and so is my pool guy.

I'm just talking about taxes. Like I said, since no politician (especially none here in CA) wants to trully take the measures to crack down on the problem I say we get them paying taxes ASAP so that we can generate some much needed revenue.
Note that being here illegally in the first place tends to encourage the above criminals to break additional laws. Using just Mexico as an example: just because its basic 'culture' does not foster respect for the Rule of Law; that is no excuse to import that loser attitude here into the USA-------we have enough homegrown riffraff as it is.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:08 AM
 
43 posts, read 45,937 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmancomics View Post
There have already been threads opened discussing the fact that the middle class is fleeing the suburbs of Los Angeles (in the L.A. forum), the fact that employers are hiring illegal immigrants in order to get cheap labor (in the general Politics and Other Controversies) and everyone in California that pays attention knows that the state was depending on illegal immigrant revenue to help balance the lack of revenue. The most common complaints are how they are a drain on the economy because they don't pay any taxes yet take full advantage of the programs that taxes pay for such as education and assistance for their children and help with their medical care. The lack of assimilation is no different than the lack of assimilation from any other group in this countries past and current history. If that were the case, there would be no Chinatowns or Little Italies or Korea Towns or Little Tokyos in this country. Besides, I don't know anyone of any "race" that doesn't enjoy a taco here and there so don't start derailing this thread with racist rederick.
So, they're here, they're not leaving, hardly any of us are doing anything to get them out and the INS sure isn't doing a good job of getting them out and keeping them out. So how do we turn the situation around? Building a wall isn't going to work and nobody wants to pay more taxes and you can't build some great wall at our southern border without rasing taxes.
In the end, the final solution seems, to me anyway, has to be amnesty. Amnesty would grant all these people social security numbers which would, in turn, give us more residents paying taxes. They would no longer need to accept payment under the table but if they did, then the IRS could audit them and make them pay penalties for not declaring them. You could even do the old bait and switch by making a "here by" date like the old amnesty and then charge them back taxes for the time that they have been here. Those who can't afford to pay the taxes would leave and those who can would stay.
Amnesty would also reduce the illegal alien population and give the INS a chance to get rid of the ones who don't qualify and trully crack down on the border.
For the record, I am an immigrant but neither I or any members of my family were ever here illegaly. We filed our papers, paid our money and waited close to ten years to get here. We flew, not walked accross the border and, though I am sympathetic to the reasons why people are forced to come here illegaly, I don't approve of anyone wasting their time once they get here or of their lack of parental skills resulting in their children becoming criminals. Neither do I approve of the lack of assimilation (you have to at least learn the lanugage of the country you're living in, for god's sakes) of any immigrant or of the abuse of government programs such as welfare by anyone, immigrant or not. Something needs to be done, though, and no politician is going to commit political suicide and say, "Get them all out". They want to be here, at least some of the population wants them here so that they can get cheap labor out of them so why not make them pay for being here through taxes?

Me, and most intelligent people completely agree with you, but the crowd in this forum is quite irrational, and I am positive they don't welcome your thoughts.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:12 AM
 
477 posts, read 570,826 times
Reputation: 279
Anyone who wants to give the illegals amnesty should be booted out of the US right along with the illegals.

I do not understand why all these damn liberals are in such a hurry to give our country away.

If you want to stimulate the economy put a bounty on illegals! Operation W*tback worked once, it can work again!
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,397,857 times
Reputation: 392
Amnestied illegal Mexicans who worked a mere 6 quarters ILLEGALLY in the US will be able to receive social security under the totalization agreement with Meheko. Uneducated low skilled miminum wage amnestied illegal Mexican scabs are supposed to save social security, since minimum wage earners pay little or no taxes? What a laugh. Amnestied illegal Mexican scabs would get far more back from social security than they would ever pay in. In addition, these low skilled minimum wage amnestied illegal Mexican scabs work bottom feeders jobs and almost all would then legally qualify for every welfare program in existance, BANKRUPTING welfare as we now know it. We'd just have 20 million more amnestied illegal Mexican Democratic voters on the welfare roles, along with all of the other Democratic voters on the welfare roles. That's what amnesty is all about; buying Democratic voters. Even if it RUINS America.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:23 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,775 posts, read 7,380,841 times
Reputation: 13043
Nope, that won't work. As soon as all the illegals are 'legal' and getting the same pay as American citizens, employers will let THEM go in favor of millions more illegals who, being encouraged by amnesty, will cross the border and work for less money or drop anchor and swell the rolls of welfare. If nothing is done to stop the influx of illegal aliens it will be a never-ending 10 year cycle. The United States has limited natural resources; we cannot feed/clothe/house the world.
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