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Old 03-10-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: San Diego
33,219 posts, read 30,520,882 times
Reputation: 17936

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
Nobody should feel bad for justifying the plight of another human being, and I'm not some wishy washy bleeding heart either. People always point out the cases of welfare abuse, crime,gangs,etc. to demonize the persona of illegal immigrants, when for the most part many of them are law abiding citizens who's only crime was entering another country illegally. I worked for a construction company (didn't own it, just worked there), as a supervisor over half a dozen hondurans of questionable immigration status, and they were more "american", with regards to strong work ethic,family values,etc. then most of the american born people I grew up around. As stated in my above posts, I don't advocate illegal immigration by any means, but as an unemployed man with a family, if i found out i could sneak over into Canada and work 40 hours a week and give my family more than what I'm giving them now, do you really think i would just sit on my a## and wait for my number to be called, hell no!!! I'd be in canada by next week without a doubt!!I've been working less than part time for over a year now, so I'm the last guy to condone handouts to people that don't deserve them, it has just been my experience with illegals that most of them aren't welfare cases or gang members. Like I said in a previous post, I'm appalled that our borders are that pourous, but I'm not going to judge somebody for doing the same thing i would if i was in their shoes!!
Ok, besides sneaking over here how were these people paid and did they have taxes taken out? It sounds like your business may not have been much of a business unless an illegal business counts.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:13 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,703,846 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
As stated in my above posts, I don't advocate illegal immigration by any means, but as an unemployed man with a family, if i found out i could sneak over into Canada and work 40 hours a week and give my family more than what I'm giving them now, do you really think i would just sit on my a## and wait for my number to be called, hell no!!! I'd be in canada by next week without a doubt!!I've been working less than part time for over a year now, so I'm the last guy to condone handouts to people that don't deserve them, it has just been my experience with illegals that most of them aren't welfare cases or gang members. Like I said in a previous post, I'm appalled that our borders are that pourous, but I'm not going to judge somebody for doing the same thing i would if i was in their shoes!!
Like you, I have had many positive relations in years past with illegal immigrants, found most of them to be good people, etc etc etc (my posts do get a little repetitious about this).

But there are MANY things that once "worked"..(or at least, that did no harm) in the past, that no longer "work" now....and illegal immigration is one of them. What was a TINY problem, and was generally well-tolerated by everyone, is now a HUGE problem, no longer so easy to dismiss.

Your post sounds reasonable and compassionate...but look at your OWN analogy..let's say you DID 'sneak over' into Canada, and WERE able to work illegally there, and DID benefit in that way. If at some point, the Canadian people decided you could no longer DO this; that you and milliuons of other foreigners were straining their system; and that you were using social services at an alarming rate...would you become ANGRY and RESENTFUL at the Canadian people? Would you attempt to "BS" them, or "guilt" them into letting you stay?..DEMANDING that they bend their rules to accomodate you?...calling them "lazy slobs"?....and would you actually excpect those tactics to WORK, and that they'd see your 'antics', and be so favorably impressed by your disply, that they'd be moved to allow you to become a Canadian citizen?.......Or would you be ASHAMED to do this, looking at it instead as having had a chance to "make some bucks" for a few years, "under the table"; but recognizing that, in the end, it IS 'THEIR' coountry, not yours...that Canada DID give you a few good years, and if Canada now wants to start enforcing its own laws, for whatever reason, that while you may 'gripe' a bit, it's REALLY not your place to tell Canadians how to run their own society?

I see your analogy, but I don't think it applies in most cases. I don't see a parallel between an American working for cash in Canada, and multiple millions of men, women, and children swamping the infrastructure of this country, arriving here illegally, and attempting through sheer "bluster", guilt, and intimidation, to FORCE us to legalize them..OR ELSE. I don't see that parallel at all.

"Let us in, you fat, lazy, land-grabbing rednecks....or we're coming in ANYWAY, and there's NOTHING you can do about it". Nope, sorry, that sort of 'message' just doesn't impress ME....and I really can't picture you 'talking like that' to the Canadians, even if you DID work there illegally.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:22 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,867,784 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
And what's wrong with walking up and asking for proof that they're here legally? That means anyone and everyone?

Why not have a random identity check day.

Everyone in the USA is required to have their identity papers and random checks will be done.

What's wrong with that?

I am sure that most people would not object because they are operating within the law. Those who want to protect the law breakers would be the most opposed to it.
Know why? Because that's called fascism. Do you really want to live in a fascist society akin to Orwell's 1984? Because that's what that would be like. Nazi Germany also had "random" identity checks...

Seriously, how do you people call yourselves American when you have no concept of what Freedom is and what our founding fathers fought for?
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:32 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,703,846 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Know why? Because that's called fascism. Do you really want to live in a fascist society akin to Orwell's 1984? Because that's what that would be like. Nazi Germany also had "random" identity checks...

Seriously, how do you people call yourselves American when you have no concept of what Freedom is and what our founding fathers fought for?
Cute. Nazi Germany also had flush toilets, electricity, and radio. Would you propose we 'purify' ourselves by getting rid of THOSE?

As a matter of fact, the day is rapidly arriving when we'll ALL be able to be 'identified' whether we want to be or not..that's simply the product of a modern, ever-evolving society. "Orwellian ?"...probably so, just like MOST of modern life, if you look at it objectively, is "Orwellian"...so what? That's life, in 2009.

This has almost NOTHING to do with illegal immigration, and everything to do with modern society. The "illegal" connection, as usual, is simply a compelling 'smoke screen'..(if you don't quit picking on illegals, you're a Fascist)...PLEASE....NONE of us have a constitutional right to privacy. Trying to connect the "ID" question with today's illegal situation is as silly as trying (as many do) to defend illegals because "America has ALWAYS welcomed immigrants, and was BUILT on the backs of uneducated, down-and-out, unskilled 'bodies', brought in by the millions to 'run our industries' "

A century ago, that was true. Trying to apply it today is, putting it mildly, a "stretch"...
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,867,784 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgewalker View Post
I guess you think all the drug wars taking place on the border are a good thing?
The drug wars happen on the border because of the War on Drugs and the AMERICAN thirst for Cocaine, Heroin, Ecstasy and the rest. Legalize them in this country and produce them within our borders and there will be no more drug wars on the Mexican border. Being that I SEE Tijuana from my office, I have more invested in this than any of you, as my life is in more danger each day the violence worsens.

Illegal immigrants have NOTHING to do with the Drug War. There may be a few gang members here or there, but most illegals are just migrant workers or domestic workers, people who work for low wages to provide Americans with cheap services that they couldn't afford if someone legal (under protection of Labor laws) were to take the place of the illegal immigrant.

Plus, what part of the failure of every prohibition in history don't you understand? Making all kinds of immigration illegal just increases the crime associated with immigration and creates an entire class of people who are undocumented and unaccounted for. I want our country to be safe (hence my decorated military service before my honorable discharge), and that wont come from more laws, it will come from regulation and controls. Allow everyone to come through borders, but make sure they're photographed, fingerprinted, their voice captured onto a voice-recognition service and make sure they are able to be identified if they do end up on the wrong side of the laws that actually protect us. Otherwise, we'll continue to have the same problems. But again, I am speaking to no one, because all of you have this notion that your opinion is the only right one and I'm a traitor for thinking that these young laws (50 years old, enacted during the cold war to help keep Communists out) were foolish to begin with, that the solution was far different than the one our paranoid 1950s government offered.

But then again, it's foolish to think that any of you actually know anything about the history of our immigration laws...
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:10 AM
 
477 posts, read 574,368 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
The drug wars happen on the border because of the War on Drugs and the AMERICAN thirst for Cocaine, Heroin, Ecstasy and the rest. Legalize them in this country and produce them within our borders and there will be no more drug wars on the Mexican border. Being that I SEE Tijuana from my office, I have more invested in this than any of you, as my life is in more danger each day the violence worsens.

Illegal immigrants have NOTHING to do with the Drug War. There may be a few gang members here or there, but most illegals are just migrant workers or domestic workers, people who work for low wages to provide Americans with cheap services that they couldn't afford if someone legal (under protection of Labor laws) were to take the place of the illegal immigrant.

Plus, what part of the failure of every prohibition in history don't you understand? Making all kinds of immigration illegal just increases the crime associated with immigration and creates an entire class of people who are undocumented and unaccounted for. I want our country to be safe (hence my decorated military service before my honorable discharge), and that wont come from more laws, it will come from regulation and controls. Allow everyone to come through borders, but make sure they're photographed, fingerprinted, their voice captured onto a voice-recognition service and make sure they are able to be identified if they do end up on the wrong side of the laws that actually protect us. Otherwise, we'll continue to have the same problems. But again, I am speaking to no one, because all of you have this notion that your opinion is the only right one and I'm a traitor for thinking that these young laws (50 years old, enacted during the cold war to help keep Communists out) were foolish to begin with, that the solution was far different than the one our paranoid 1950s government offered.

But then again, it's foolish to think that any of you actually know anything about the history of our immigration laws...
Don't know why your picking on me, I agree with you. You can search my posts and you will see I have commented on being OK with legal migration. I will concede the point that illegals and the drug wars are only loosely connected but I do think that the druggies use the illegals as cover, mules, etc. so there is a connection.

I am all for a fence around the entire country with passports required to get in and out (hell I do that today when I travel.) if it would shut down the druggies, illegals and terrorists.

So, take that! and Thanks for your service to our country!
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,335,662 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
as a person who often gets profiled (black/brown) i do have a problem with being stopped for no other reason than the color of my skin. i do have a problem with being suspected of commititng crimes.

until it happens to you, you shouldnt assume what others accept or dont.

we learn to live with it, but that dont mean we fully accept it. profiling is not the way to go. its better to have concrete evidence.

thats also the way to avoid these stupid law suits. you only open yourself up to be sued if you go around harrasing people for no other reason than for the way they look.

any intelligent individual understands that.
Get over it!!!
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:51 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,953,917 times
Reputation: 47490
what if ICE is subcontracting its janitorial and gardening?
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:23 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,140,242 times
Reputation: 2244
what an intelligent response. [sarcasm off]



get over being harrassed for the color of my skin? you must be kidding.
or you probably never been on the recieving end of harrasment and profiling because of something you have no control over (well maybe i could bleach my skin, but thts so mid century)


silly post mk. really silly post yours is.

but thanks for adding your intolerance to the world!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Get over it!!!
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:40 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,703,846 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
what an intelligent response. [sarcasm off]



get over being harrassed for the color of my skin? you must be kidding.
or you probably never been on the recieving end of harrasment and profiling because of something you have no control over (well maybe i could bleach my skin, but thts so mid century)


silly post mk. really silly post yours is.

but thanks for adding your intolerance to the world!
You seem to have a fixation on the color of your skin. You don't describe it, but whatever it is, I'm SURE that it's shared by many people..human skin only comes in SO MANY colors.

I'm sure that whatever color your skin IS, it's shared by many others....and it's hard to believe ANYBODY is harrassed just for the color of his skin. My own family has quite a variation of skin colors..(we don't have NAMES for all of them, but they're all different)...and while a few relatives have had run-ins with the police, I don't recall anyone feeling that their problems were caused by their skin color.

Are you SURE that you're having problems ONLY because of your skin color..and NOTHING ELSE?..you're not 'doing anything', 'acting in any way', or 'hanging out' in any place, that might cause you problems...and the ONLY thing that draws attention to you is your skin color? If that's true, it's pretty alarming.
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