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Old 03-04-2009, 08:54 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,116,923 times
Reputation: 1423

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Mexican citizens can ingest foods produced in Mexico without experiencing any adverse affects because their bodies are accustomed to the contaminants. Likewise, Mexican citizens can drink the water without experiencing gastrointestinal distress. Let a U.S. citizen try it, and they will be sick as a dog.

Like teatime, I also avoid Mexican products; in particular fruits and veggies. Whenever I grocery shop, I check the labels. If it is a product of Mexico (or China), I donít buy it. I have also stopped buying Hershey products since they relocated to Mexico.
Points well taken, yet not all Mexicans are accustomed to the contaminants, neither all Americans get ill from drinking the water.

I remember that almost 10 years ago, when I worked at an american firm, and the president came to Monterrey Nuevo Leon, because there was a meeting of all the directives of the company, he stayed in my house, he went to the bathroom opened the faucet and drank the water!!! I was shocked, and he said, hey I've done this several times, if you are strong nothing happens to you, and he was right, nothing happened to him LOL
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,116,923 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
We don't need Mexico. We never have needed Mexico. Anything we get from Mexico we can get elsewhere. It may cost more, but if you figure in the cost of illegal aliens, the inexpensive tomatoes from south of the border no longer look like such a bargain.
It is easy to say these things, yet you forget the fact that we share a border, and wether we like it or not, we are stuck together, this simple fact has created a relationship that wether we like it or not, needs to be improved.

Quote:
We would be better off without both. You may find it amusing that "Mexico can get away with things that most countries in the world wouldn't even dream of", but you see, here's the problem- many Americans don't find it amusing at all. And you are making the common mistake of equating the traitors in Washington with the American people, the two are distinctly different entities. While the cowards in DC may crumble under pressure from the left and the hispanic advocacy groups such as LaRaza, many of us feel no duty to put up with this nonsense and do not support the idea that anyone who wants can come waltzing into our country whenever they feel like it.
I don't find it amusing, I just stated something that is true, and I said it to point how much does Mexico need of the US that things like this happen.

Unfortuntately, as it may seem, those in power know several things that we ignore, and yet even more unfortuantely they have the power to make laws, change laws and we don't, and so far like you stated, those "tratiors" from washington have done everything in their hands to keep and sustain illegal immigration.

Quote:
The bottom line is that citizens of Mexico need to stay out of the US unless they have our permission to be here.
I agree, but a significant amount of your society thinks quite the opposite, and those who think this have power, money, resources and lobbys.

Quote:
Common sense dictates that if you are in a relationship that is dysfunctional to the extreme, then you get out of it. I do not see where we are getting much out of the US-Mexico relationship other than millions of poorly educated, unskilled illegals and frankly, that overshadows anything else that we do get out of it.
In a 2 person relationship where you can just walk away, change your phone, move to another state, that would be the idea, but we can't change the fact that both countries share a border that is very porous and totally uncontrolled, yet if Mexico disappeared from the face of the earth in this very moment, then the US economy would shrink, and the drop in GDP would be worse than this crisis and the great depression combined.

Quote:
There is not point in continuing this charade. It is time for Mexico to take back her citizens who are illegally in the US and work on solving problems that plague Mexican society. We need to be left alone so that we can work on solutions to the many serious issues we face. Sorry, but we can no longer serve as a dumping ground for your impoverished citizens. It is up to Mexico to improve their lives, not the US.
This is happening, but changes take loooooong, unfortunately for new laws to be approved, a significant portion of the congress has to agree, and even if laws are made, people has to get accustomed to them, and this takes time too, now you have to remember that to elevate life standards you need to create jobs, to create jobs you need investment, be it foreign or domestic, and to raise wages you need to raise productivity as well, all this takes time and a lot of hard work, but so is life, any achievement costs dearly, unfortunately until this happens we are stuck together, so neither the US can leave Mexico alone nor Mexico can leave the US alone, but now tell me what steps have been taken in the US to reduce illegal immigration? the truth is that nothing has been done, besides smoke and mirror meassures, and this is not the fault of Mexico, we don't have an authoritarian regime like China does where people could be put in prison for emigrating illegaly, and as long as there are benefits for illegals that no other country in the world offers no one can complain. (imho)
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 15,554,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I do believe that we (mankind) are still in the stone age in many issues, we are still divided by many things, people seems more interested in pointing to the differences that to things that could unite us, we are more interested in arguing or proving the other wrong rather than trying to listen and understand.

I believe this us vs them mindset will stop one day, when we realize that those borders and countries are but artificial divisions, that nationalism is something irrational, and that in our never ending quest for happiness and fullfillment, we've just lost our precious lifes with materialism, selfishness and pettyness.

I mean is there really a big difference between 2 human beings born in different cultures? many people will say yes but I don't agree, we all possess a heart, we all have souls, even if our egoes are strong we all have the ability to put it under the soul's control.

When people from the entire world wake up and realize that the only thing that can give us that what we strive so long to obtain is in our interior, and that unity and respect between individuals is the solution, until then we can say we are civilized.
I admire your spirit and sentiments but I don't think it's that simple. Human beings are VERY complex individually and that complexity intensifies since humans belong to societies. Most humans belong to at least a few communities; how, why and what we choose for "belonging" is, in itself, complex. I'll give you a few observations from my own life by way of example.

I was raised in a racially diverse area. I am very comfortable with black and Asian folks and my closest friends were comprised of all three races. Ethnically, it was what most non-Americans would think of ideally when they considered Americana -- traditional German, Italian, Polish, Irish, and Slavic neighborhoods with churches that offered services in the native language and English, restaurants that served ethnic cuisine, and bars/social clubs.

Heh, my dad, who was of English descent, belonged to the Italian Club so we could eat at their restaurant and attend their wonderful festivals. Dad and I would go to the Serbian Club's picnic every year so we could enjoy their fabulous roasted lamb. And my dad's black friends would bring us over incredible ribs if someone they knew was cooking. That's just the way it was.

When I moved to Brownsville, Texas, I enjoyed learning about Mexican culture and eating their foods, as well. It was the first time I was ever part of a tiny minority among a VERY homogeneous majority and, being blonde, blue-eyed and very English in my speech and mannerisms, let's just say I stood out in the crowd.

The novelty wore off after about a year and a half of being there. I grew very tired of strangers coming up to touch my hair; of rather ignorant, personal questions about why I came from a small family and had only one child; of exhortations for me to NOT be whom I was but to dress, cook, speak, decorate, buy, and celebrate differently. I tried to teach others about my culture but they weren't interested or, if they listened, they'd run it down. Most annoyingly, they called every Caucasian person they saw an "Anglo." I tried to explain to them that, yes, I was an Anglo because my ancestry is half English but my Czech mother would object if you called her an Anglo, as would anyone who is German, Italian, Greek, etc. They didn't listen. It was clear they didn't care.

That was very strange for me, as I had never encountered such an insular area and ethnicity like that before. I felt like I was constantly under pressure to lose my individuality and what made me "me." The dominant culture refused to look outside of itself and consider other points of view or ways of life. That's part of the reason for many of the social problems that are endemic in that area.

My point is this: Most countries are relatively homogeneous. Some would clearly like to keep it that way and are threatened by other cultures and ideas. There are social and psychological reasons for this and some are rooted in instinct and instinctive behavior. It takes a massive amount of will, education, and socialization to overcome. Instinct, however, is hard-wired. Territorialism, fight or flight, and group preservation are such instincts.

When I taught at a private school, I was amazed by another phenomenon. The students all wore the same uniform. Heh, even their socks had to be bought according to dress code. You'd think it would promote unity and equality, right? Nope. The kids FOUND differences to pick on, whether it be the brand of pencils others bought, the brand of shoes they wore, or even the style of their backpacks. It was no more "distraction-free" or "bully-free" than a public high school where the kids could wear what they wanted. Some things, like focusing on differences even when they're hard to find, must be human nature.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,116,923 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
My point is this: Most countries are relatively homogeneous. Some would clearly like to keep it that way and are threatened by other cultures and ideas. There are social and psychological reasons for this and some are rooted in instinct and instinctive behavior. It takes a massive amount of will, education, and socialization to overcome. Instinct, however, is hard-wired. Territorialism, fight or flight, and group preservation are such instincts.

When I taught at a private school, I was amazed by another phenomenon. The students all wore the same uniform. Heh, even their socks had to be bought according to dress code. You'd think it would promote unity and equality, right? Nope. The kids FOUND differences to pick on, whether it be the brand of pencils others bought, the brand of shoes they wore, or even the style of their backpacks. It was no more "distraction-free" or "bully-free" than a public high school where the kids could wear what they wanted. Some things, like focusing on differences even when they're hard to find, must be human nature.
You hit it! Instinct is the key, we human beings are the only beings in the entire planet that have the ability to reason, and are endowed with a higher ability which is intuition, unfortunately poorly developed.

Reason, Intuition, Willpower, are what compose our higher being, or nature, while instinct is what composes our lower being or nature, yet if we develop our consciousness to the point where it is stronger than instinct and is able to control it, we'd have made a quantum leap in our evolution.

The "hardware" to do such a thing is already there the "software" too, unfortunately we have a virus in our operating system that'd be instinct, that was useful in the times where we were cavemans and suffered all kinds of life treathening situations, but right now given the current situation of the world, with it's wars, unequalities, disparities and lack of understanding, it seems that instinct has become obsolete and needs to be left behind.

Just my humble opinion, I do have hope that we'll reach world unity one day.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:00 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,597,936 times
Reputation: 1282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
It is easy to say these things, yet you forget the fact that we share a border, and wether we like it or not, we are stuck together, this simple fact has created a relationship that wether we like it or not, needs to be improved.



I don't find it amusing, I just stated something that is true, and I said it to point how much does Mexico need of the US that things like this happen.

Unfortuntately, as it may seem, those in power know several things that we ignore, and yet even more unfortuantely they have the power to make laws, change laws and we don't, and so far like you stated, those "tratiors" from washington have done everything in their hands to keep and sustain illegal immigration.

I agree, but a significant amount of your society thinks quite the opposite, and those who think this have power, money, resources and lobbys.
Once again, you are confusing the fools in Washington with We the People. The time will come when we have had enough and Mexico is going to rue the day they ever printed those comic books encouraging all their impoverished citizens to head for El Norte.



Quote:
In a 2 person relationship where you can just walk away, change your phone, move to another state, that would be the idea, but we can't change the fact that both countries share a border that is very porous and totally uncontrolled, yet if Mexico disappeared from the face of the earth in this very moment, then the US economy would shrink, and the drop in GDP would be worse than this crisis and the great depression combined.
Utter nonsense.


Quote:
This is happening, but changes take loooooong, unfortunately for new laws to be approved, a significant portion of the congress has to agree, and even if laws are made, people has to get accustomed to them, and this takes time too, now you have to remember that to elevate life standards you need to create jobs, to create jobs you need investment, be it foreign or domestic, and to raise wages you need to raise productivity as well, all this takes time and a lot of hard work, but so is life, any achievement costs dearly, unfortunately until this happens we are stuck together, so neither the US can leave Mexico alone nor Mexico can leave the US alone, but now tell me what steps have been taken in the US to reduce illegal immigration? the truth is that nothing has been done, besides smoke and mirror meassures, and this is not the fault of Mexico, we don't have an authoritarian regime like China does where people could be put in prison for emigrating illegaly, and as long as there are benefits for illegals that no other country in the world offers no one can complain. (imho)
Listen,you don't tell me what to do. I will complain all I want.

So in your opinion it is alright for the Mexican illegals to grab all the benefits and freebies they can from the US? I mean, since every inch of the border is not sealed off with a 30 foot high concrete wall, why shouldn't they? What would it take to make them stop and think twice? An armed guard every 10 feet? Obeying the law certainly does not seem to figure prominently in their thinking. If you were walking past a store with a broken display window would you walk in and help your self to a new suit? Why not? No one is stopping you. Go ahead and take one! Who cares if it is at somebody else's expense. Has it ever occurred to you that the US benefit system was set up for Americans, not Mexicans? If these people have such poor impulse control that they just have to head north to grab things that are not theirs, they are hardly the sort we should be allowing into the country, legally or illegally.

Furthermore, there are certain specific qualities that seem to be prevalent among the illegals from south of the border. One is a total lack of respect for the concepts of law and order, another is a very poorly developed sense of right and wrong and a third is a complete lack of conscience. They do not care if they bankrupt the local hospital or overcrowd the neighborhood school, it simply does not matter to them. Anything goes as long as it benefits them and their raza. And this is why, at the end of the day, this simply is not going to work. And try as you may, you cannot change the fact that they are in the US illegally.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,846,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Once again, you are confusing the fools in Washington with We the People. The time will come when we have had enough and Mexico is going to rue the day they ever printed those comic books encouraging all their impoverished citizens to head for El Norte.





Utter nonsense.




Listen,you don't tell me what to do. I will complain all I want.

So in your opinion it is alright for the Mexican illegals to grab all the benefits and freebies they can from the US? I mean, since every inch of the border is not sealed off with a 30 foot high concrete wall, why shouldn't they? What would it take to make them stop and think twice? An armed guard every 10 feet? Obeying the law certainly does not seem to figure prominently in their thinking. If you were walking past a store with a broken display window would you walk in and help your self to a new suit? Why not? No one is stopping you. Go ahead and take one! Who cares if it is at somebody else's expense. Has it ever occurred to you that the US benefit system was set up for Americans, not Mexicans? If these people have such poor impulse control that they just have to head north to grab things that are not theirs, they are hardly the sort we should be allowing into the country, legally or illegally.

Furthermore, there are certain specific qualities that seem to be prevalent among the illegals from south of the border. One is a total lack of respect for the concepts of law and order, another is a very poorly developed sense of right and wrong and a third is a complete lack of conscience. They do not care if they bankrupt the local hospital or overcrowd the neighborhood school, it simply does not matter to them. Anything goes as long as it benefits them and their raza. And this is why, at the end of the day, this simply is not going to work. And try as you may, you cannot change the fact that they are in the US illegally.
Someday you'll get tired of being so bitter and hating so much.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,551,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Someday you'll get tired of being so bitter and hating so much.
Bitter and hateful of people who trespass and violate laws intentionally and of those who encourage them to do so? I think not.

Perhaps someday you'll believe that the law applies to everyone and not believe that illegal aliens are entitled to do or get what they please or receive free passes because of their social status/nationality/race/ethnicity/etc.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:00 PM
 
Location: southern california
53,698 posts, read 70,219,660 times
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impossible if you are president of mexico and money sent home is 2nd largest source of income for your nation.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,846,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
Bitter and hateful of people who trespass and violate laws intentionally and of those who encourage them to do so? I think not.

Perhaps someday you'll believe that the law applies to everyone and not believe that illegal aliens are entitled to do or get what they please or receive free passes because of their social status/nationality/race/ethnicity/etc.
Illegal aliens come in many nationalities/races/ethnic groups, etc. Stop acting like illegal alien is synonymous with one group.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,551,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Illegal aliens come in many nationalities/races/ethnic groups, etc. Stop acting like illegal alien is synonymous with one group.
Duh! I'm aware of that.

My problem is that you seem to believe that illegal aliens are entitled to violate laws intentionally because of either their social statuses or their nationalities/races/ethnicities/something else.

In addition, for some reason(s) you seem to believe that there's something wrong with being bitter and hateful towards those who engage in or encourage illegal migration--the former of which is a crime if you didn't know already.

Please, do tell us all why the social status/nationality/race/ethnicity/ or whatever characteristic(s) that these illegal aliens possess that entitles them to violate the law and/or receive free US gov. services which they don't deserve.

I'm really anticipating your justification(s).
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