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Old 03-04-2009, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,131,935 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
Duh! I'm aware of that.

My problem is that you seem to believe that illegal aliens are entitled to violate laws intentionally because of either their social status or their nationality/race/ethnicity.

In addition, for some reason(s) you seem to believe that there's something wrong with being bitter and hateful towards those who engage in or encourage illegal migration--the former of which is a crime if you didn't know already.

Please, do tell us all why the social status/nationality/race/ethnicity/ or whatever characteristic(s) that these illegal aliens possess that entitles them to violate the law and/or receive free US gov. services which they don't deserve.

I'm really anticipating your justification(s).
Can you back up that claim? I usually ask people to back it up, but they never reply.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,095,886 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Whether or not you agree with her cause, you have to respect her for the decent person she appears to be.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/7038324-post7.html

Quote:
There aim is cause fear, as if we should fear all illegals as evil monsters because of the actions of criminals who happen to be illegal.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/7241521-post20.html

Quote:
This kid hustled his way through a disadvantaged position, and did what none of us can do. People hustle in worse ways to get worse things.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/7571645-post15.html

If those posts of yours aren't justifying the actions of illegal aliens then please explain what you really meant.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:32 AM
 
2,383 posts, read 3,114,126 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Moreover, our demand for several kinds of tomatoes and such requires the labor- and time-consuming practice of employing people to hand-pick the produce. Machines could do this work faster and safer if we would just be willing to sacrifice our demand for huge variety. We need to mechanize the farms -- the cost would be high at first but the savings and safety reaped would pay for it handily.
Not to discredit your point but I have a hard time visualizing a machine that would detect tomatos and cut the stem without damaging the goods. Having lived most of my life in areas surrounded by agriculture, I know they use machines for different things. I dont think it is a priority in America to invent the latest agricultural machines that would reduce employment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
People would be much healthier if they simply ate local produce, in season. The produce can also be canned or frozen for consumption throughout the winter. The process of growing, picking before ripe, and transporting our food thousands of miles puts the safety of our food supply in jeopardy and also provides us with inferior products.
I agree with your point. However, supply does not meet demand if we would go that route. I'm also a vegitarian and into organic foods. Our organic food stores carry a lot of organic produce from Mexico. Having said that, the U.S. is in process of eliminating all organic foods with the introduction of codex alimentarius. You can then kiss organics good bye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
I disagree that the immigration problems were simply "allowed" to happen. There are over a dozen LEGAL programs by which farmers, ranchers, and manufacturers can LEGALLY hire workers from other countries if they need them. These programs were created in direct response to ABUSES of illegal immigrants. However, when unrest hit the Latin American countries, we were inundated by refugees. And, this is important, MEXICO did not help us stem the flow.
Both of my grandfathers came to this country with one of those programs. Just because there is paperwork in place permitting of immigrants to work does not mean there is no abuse because there was and a lot. Also, it is the company who chooses to hire illegals than to go through the hassles of getting immigrants through the above programs. They dont have to report those salaries.
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Old 03-05-2009, 03:41 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 6,964,499 times
Reputation: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
We don't need Mexico. We never have needed Mexico. Anything we get from Mexico we can get elsewhere. It may cost more, but if you figure in the cost of illegal aliens, the inexpensive tomatoes from south of the border no longer look like such a bargain. We would be better off without both. You may find it amusing that "Mexico can get away with things that most countries in the world wouldn't even dream of", but you see, here's the problem- many Americans don't find it amusing at all. And you are making the common mistake of equating the traitors in Washington with the American people, the two are distinctly different entities. While the cowards in DC may crumble under pressure from the left and the hispanic advocacy groups such as LaRaza, many of us feel no duty to put up with this nonsense and do not support the idea that anyone who wants can come waltzing into our country whenever they feel like it. The bottom line is that citizens of Mexico need to stay out of the US unless they have our permission to be here.



Common sense dictates that if you are in a relationship that is dysfunctional to the extreme, then you get out of it. I do not see where we are getting much out of the US-Mexico relationship other than millions of poorly educated, unskilled illegals and frankly, that overshadows anything else that we do get out of it. There is not point in continuing this charade. It is time for Mexico to take back her citizens who are illegally in the US and work on solving problems that plague Mexican society. We need to be left alone so that we can work on solutions to the many serious issues we face. Sorry, but we can no longer serve as a dumping ground for your impoverished citizens. It is up to Mexico to improve their lives, not the US.
Agreed. Thank you for expressing how 99.9% of Americans feel about the one sided dysfunctional "relationship" with mexico and it's life long co-dependency of riding the backs of American taxpayers in order to exist. Not only is it not our job to continue propping up it's existence, it is not our problem either. Unfortunately common sense is not common among the politicians or the greedy corporate masters whose selfish motives and corruption, masked as generosity is allowing those from SOB to destroy the US because of it's inability to survive as a self sustaining country.

Our "relationship" with mexico is the equivalent of an abusive marriage that should have ended decades ago. If mexico can't sustain itself, we need to let it collapse on it's own.

Excellent points and post

Last edited by JDubsMom; 03-05-2009 at 03:55 AM..
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Old 03-05-2009, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,002,588 times
Reputation: 3654
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Illegal aliens come in many nationalities/races/ethnic groups, etc. Stop acting like illegal alien is synonymous with one group.
Correct.

But the cold reality is that about 85% of all illegal aliens are/were indeed from Mexico/Central America. Most of the rest of the OTM's fly under the radar.

Translation: one gets more bang for the buck closing/locking our southern border.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,063 posts, read 11,354,165 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Not to discredit your point but I have a hard time visualizing a machine that would detect tomatos and cut the stem without damaging the goods. Having lived most of my life in areas surrounded by agriculture, I know they use machines for different things. I dont think it is a priority in America to invent the latest agricultural machines that would reduce employment.

I agree with your point. However, supply does not meet demand if we would go that route. I'm also a vegitarian and into organic foods. Our organic food stores carry a lot of organic produce from Mexico. Having said that, the U.S. is in process of eliminating all organic foods with the introduction of codex alimentarius. You can then kiss organics good bye.

Both of my grandfathers came to this country with one of those programs. Just because there is paperwork in place permitting of immigrants to work does not mean there is no abuse because there was and a lot. Also, it is the company who chooses to hire illegals than to go through the hassles of getting immigrants through the above programs. They dont have to report those salaries.
Um, sorry, but there's no need to "invent" the machine. It already exists. And, as I said previously, it will only harvest certain types of tomatoes so merely by reducing the kinds of produce available, we can rid ourselves of the need for all of these illegal workers.

The machine that revolutionized a harvest

Are the immigration programs perfect? Of course not. But WE have the right and the duty to try to control how many come and know who's here. I realize you would prefer a free-for-all open border but the vast majority of American citizens aren't buying.
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:19 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,163 posts, read 7,687,730 times
Reputation: 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
More proof that both countries depend on each other. It is convinient for the U.S. to hire for cheap labor and for Mexico to get immigrant U.S. income for its own economy.

I still have a hard time wondering why the border is not closed. I dont really believe in conspiracy theories but it makes one wonder if it is in the plans to make all of Northern America, one huge country with the Amerinero currency in place. Frankly, I dont think either side of this immigration issue will win.
In my very personal and humble opinion, Illegal immigration will never end, many people believe this is a problem exclusive of the USA, but the truth is that every country in the world has illegal immigrants.

Wishing that illegal immigration ends, is like wishing that suffering, disease, wars, natural disasters, will be gone forever.

Measures can be taken to reduce it, some are more efective than others, but even the most effective measure is subject to the human factor, we humans can be corrupted, or feel sympathy for those who we might believe are in need and many other factors that reduce the effectivity of those measures.

The world was open to immigrate/emigrate for centuries, maybe it was because Nations and borders weren't as defined as today, maybe it was because we didn't have the population we do now, whatever the reason, one day it was decided that people shouldn't just move and settle in a different country, unless certain conditions were met, conditions that for the big majority of people who decides to risk their lifes, and freedom are completely out of their reach.

We human beings are obsessed with control, we still haven't realized that control is an illusion, you can't control the weather, you can't control the forces of nature, you can't control other human beings, and much less a border, our ability to do things in this material world is limited, yet fooled by the illusion of control we develop attachment to the way things are right now, or the way things were before, without realizing that this is an ever chaning and impermanent universe, our bodies change over time, and we can't control that, we have some limited degree of control over some things, and this might mitigate the changes we have to suffer, but eventually all of us will have to leave this world, and our beloved material posessions, yet we cling to them and let us be possesed by them loosing our freedom and inner peace in the processs.

That's why again I repeat, in my very personal and humble opinion, it is a waste of time and energy, and our precious inner peace, to spend a life feeling bad and suffering about these things, our existence is very short to waste it in such trivial matters, or to live our entire lifes fearing or worrying about things that 90% of the time never happen.

The only thing that we can really control is ourselves, our mental state, our choices, thoughts, words and deeds, we can use that force and employ it in having happy fulfilling lifes, we can learn to let go and prepare for the ever changing conditions of this transitory, dualistic world by adapting to them.

Or we can reach old age some day, and bitterly regret that we spent the very best of our lifes in useless things.
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Old 03-07-2009, 03:44 AM
 
2,383 posts, read 3,114,126 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Um, sorry, but there's no need to "invent" the machine. It already exists. And, as I said previously, it will only harvest certain types of tomatoes so merely by reducing the kinds of produce available, we can rid ourselves of the need for all of these illegal workers.

The machine that revolutionized a harvest
This machine was invented before my time, so I guess, in my mind I was looking for something more modern. It is actually the same thing I have seen all my life but you also have to understand that in the tomato business, it is not only the harvest. You also need employees to transport the goods to the tomato plant and process it to make it into tomato paste, tomato soup, ketchup, etc. There is a lot more workers involved than meets the eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Are the immigration programs perfect? Of course not. But WE have the right and the duty to try to control how many come and know who's here. I realize you would prefer a free-for-all open border but the vast majority of American citizens aren't buying.
What made you think that?
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:12 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 4,726,715 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
http://www.city-data.com/forum/7038324-post7.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/7241521-post20.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/7571645-post15.html

If those posts of yours aren't justifying the actions of illegal aliens then please explain what you really meant.
The woman he was talking about was a legal immigrant. As for your other quotes you posted, they still don't back up your claim in the previous post.

Quote:
My problem is that you seem to believe that illegal aliens are entitled to violate laws intentionally because of either their social status or their nationality/race/ethnicity.

Only the anti-immigrant crowd try to make this about nationality/race/ethnicity.
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:46 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 6,964,499 times
Reputation: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
The woman he was talking about was a legal immigrant. As for your other quotes you posted, they still don't back up your claim in the previous post.




Only the anti-immigrant crowd try to make this about nationality/race/ethnicity.
Give it up Blacknight. Blurring the lines between ILLEGAL ALIENS and LEGAL IMMIGRANTS has long outlived it's usefulness for the ethnocentric racists and the OBL crowd. This is about illegal immigration and you know it.
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