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Old 03-11-2009, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I have to wonder why your excuse Mexico of any and all responsibility for this mess. Does it interfere with a 'la raza' type mentality? To take ownership of the craphole politics of your own country makes it harder to point fingers at the US? To accept and admit Mexicos corruption and guilt is to remove yourself from a victim mentality?

Change can not occur from without, and Mexico and its people will never 'rise' or be in any way powerful if they cannot or willnot admit to their shortcomings. And be willing to change them.
Once Mexico grows up: I will start taking it seriously as well.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,941,176 times
Reputation: 6517
Your right it isn't all mexico's fault but they most definetly are enablers. How to manuals of how to sneak accross the border? How to get work under the table? Your right Mexico doesn't own even a small part of the problem.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:22 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,642,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I have to wonder why your excuse Mexico of any and all responsibility for this mess. Does it interfere with a 'la raza' type mentality? To take ownership of the craphole politics of your own country makes it harder to point fingers at the US? To accept and admit Mexicos corruption and guilt is to remove yourself from a victim mentality?

Change can not occur from without, and Mexico and its people will never 'rise' or be in any way powerful if they cannot or willnot admit to their shortcomings. And be willing to change them.
The Third World is a tough place. You'll get little or no help from "the system", and you're pretty much 'on your own', to make your way as best you can, with 'bluster' and boldness, aided ONLY by friends and family. And part of 'Third World culture' is NEVER saying "it's my fault".....even when it IS.

Culture is everything, and it's 80% of the cause of the intense disagreements on this forum....and around the world.

In the Third World, you "don't admit NOTHIN' !!" (even when you're WRONG). It just isn't done...........
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:45 PM
 
608 posts, read 882,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I have to wonder why your excuse Mexico of any and all responsibility for this mess. Does it interfere with a 'la raza' type mentality? To take ownership of the craphole politics of your own country makes it harder to point fingers at the US? To accept and admit Mexicos corruption and guilt is to remove yourself from a victim mentality?

Change can not occur from without, and Mexico and its people will never 'rise' or be in any way powerful if they cannot or willnot admit to their shortcomings. And be willing to change them.
Actually Calderon accepts the short comings and is trying and has already reached out to Obama. One of the obstacles is their lack of a national police force as they are a federal country. Each of the 32 states has its own police force and many more municipalities. Imagine a situation where there is no federal oversight or process for exchanging criminal data. I understand Calderon is working hard to change this and overhaul courts and police organizations in hoping to adopt and streamline with uniform procedures. They are even in the process of forming the equivalent of an FBI and creating a national database of criminals. No doubt to share information with US and other countries.

Changing something of this magnitude doesn't happen overnight. It happens no quicker than the US is at taking control of and securing its borders, stopping drug traffic, reducing crime of all levels. Let's be realistic here. We can't judge when we have not much more control of our country either.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
The Third World is a tough place. You'll get little or no help from "the system", and you're pretty much 'on your own', to make your way as best you can, with 'bluster' and boldness, aided ONLY by friends and family. And part of 'Third World culture' is NEVER saying "it's my fault".....even when it IS.

Culture is everything, and it's 80% of the cause of the intense disagreements on this forum....and around the world.

In the Third World, you "don't admit NOTHIN' !!" (even when you're WRONG). It just isn't done...........
Flip side:

That 'every dog for himself' mentality is the Achilles Heel of every Third World culture out there due to the ease of 'divide and conquer'.

One reason that First World nations are so powerful is strength through numbers and closing ranks when times get tough----------much like one huge family.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:04 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,057,072 times
Reputation: 2878
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
Actually Calderon accepts the short comings and is trying and has already reached out to Obama. One of the obstacles is their lack of a national police force as they are a federal country. Each of the 32 states has its own police force and many more municipalities. Imagine a situation where there is no federal oversight or process for exchanging criminal data. I understand Calderon is working hard to change this and overhaul courts and police organizations in hoping to adopt and streamline with uniform procedures. They are even in the process of forming the equivalent of an FBI and creating a national database of criminals. No doubt to share information with US and other countries.

Changing something of this magnitude doesn't happen overnight. It happens no quicker than the US is at taking control of and securing its borders, stopping drug traffic, reducing crime of all levels. Let's be realistic here. We can't judge when we have not much more control of our country either.
What? Mexico has just learned of the internet? This is not a problem that just suddenly surfaced, they have known and tolerated a substandard police force for the entirety of their existance.

But that is not what I was talking about.

What I was referring to is Mexicos societal ladder. The ones at the top are ridiculously wealthy and the rest are horribly poor and uneducated. Why is that? Why are rich and educated people willing to look the other way as their countrymen are not educated....why are the rich/educated/influential people of Mexico happy to have their peons go illegally to the North?
The culture itself is rotted, and unless you want the US to play nation building down Mexico way it is not or place or ability to change Mexico.
Furthermore, it is not the US' fault that Mexico is the way it is.
It is Mexicans fault, no more and no less. And again, for the US to solve their problems well...just look to Iraq because that is how we solve other nations problems. I don't think any of us wants that.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbide1981 View Post
lol...are you slow?
yeah they have an attachment....they both terrorize the hell of our locals...american or mexican.....

and use fear to complete their task....
come on men...common sense
please
And both the Mexican as well as our authorities are terrorizing the drug cartels as well----------with the latter flipping out and grasping at straws.

Progress in Mexico drug war is drenched in blood (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090310/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_mexico_struggling_cartels;_ylt=As0uzep4K75TUlbp AMq9F7O3IxIF - broken link).
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:28 PM
 
365 posts, read 668,789 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
And both the Mexican as well as our authorities are terrorizing the drug cartels as well----------with the latter flipping out and grasping at straws.

Progress in Mexico drug war is drenched in blood (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090310/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_mexico_struggling_cartels;_ylt=As0uzep4K75TUlbp AMq9F7O3IxIF - broken link).
thank you...and trust me i understan..and not being sarcastic?
but tell me
where are more casueltie?iraq afghanistan...

or the drug problems in america? there both terrorist....

the diffrence is that iraq and afghanistan received ...over 600 billion dollars....

fighting drugs in america...40 billion
border patrol..................12 billion
that stupid wall...............2 billion?

add them up...
and there not near
with the casualties....
of what drug warfare cause in america....

when you hear shootings...aprehencians in
brooklyn...atlanta..raleigh. chicago...
anywhere has to do with drugs coming from mexico...
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:48 PM
 
365 posts, read 668,789 times
Reputation: 41
s evidence of that pressure, the U.S. government says the amount of cocaine seized on U.S. soil dropped by 41 percent between early 2007 and mid-2008. Reduced supply is said to have raised street prices by nearly a third to about $125 a gram in the U.S. and lowered purity by more than 15 percent. Both the U.S. and Canadian governments are even seeing prolonged shortages of cocaine.
"The reason you see the escalation in violence is because U.S. and Mexican law enforcement are winning," Garrison Courtney, spokesman for the Drug Enforcement Administration, said Tuesday. "You are going to see the drug traffickers push back because we are breaking their back. It's reasonable to assume they are going to try to fight to stay relevant."

even the american government is accepting the good conclusions from this...41% percent...is that progress or what...what I dont like is that mexico is paying for these results with blood....
I wish someday our authorities can work with mexican authorities...in a bigger better way..instead of patrolling the coast of china...or
the coast of iran...they should be patrolling the caribbian...there just some much the usa can do...

and yet you hear from this side of the border when they
Border Lines: Merida Initiative and Failed Drug War Paradigm
gave mexico 500 million to supply the mexican government to fight
the drug cartels....

now tell me 500 million how much would the campaigns in iraq or afghanistan run with that budget?
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
iturbide1981: do us all a favor and talk less but say more-----------otherwise you are being noting more than a Troll.
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