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Old 03-12-2009, 08:30 AM
 
608 posts, read 880,943 times
Reputation: 64

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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Yes, now that the violence has gotten to the point that the middle class is feeling it, suddenly it is a problem in Mexico. You don't think the poor haven't been in the crossfire for decades?
Again, they are the ones that created this problem, and short of an US invasion only Mexico can solve this problem.
You just said in an earlier post the rich/wealthy are to blame. You can't seem to make up your mind.
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:34 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,033,451 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
You just said in an earlier post the rich/wealthy are to blame. You can't seem to make up your mind.
When I wrote 'they' I meant Mexico - not the poor.
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:38 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
The Third World is a tough place. You'll get little or no help from "the system", and you're pretty much 'on your own', to make your way as best you can, with 'bluster' and boldness, aided ONLY by friends and family. And part of 'Third World culture' is NEVER saying "it's my fault".....even when it IS.

Culture is everything, and it's 80% of the cause of the intense disagreements on this forum....and around the world.

In the Third World, you "don't admit NOTHIN' !!" (even when you're WRONG). It just isn't done...........
I hate the stupid American centrist, anti-third world POV THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THIRD WORLD CULTURE!!!! What so people from the third world are lazy. I am not lazy. The immigrant doctors in US med schools are not lazy. Corruption is rampant everywhere as well. In Mexico, corruption is also influenced and aided by US corporations and was a result of a colonial regime.

The thing that many Americans seem to forget is that they are not the only living beings on this planet. We helped cause the problem of the third world. Corrupt leaders backed with US dollars and corporate interest is possbily the LARGEST cause of the problem (as well as European greed). Why do you think China is making great in roads in Africa? It's most likely because they branded themselves as brothers rather than superiors.

Part of the reason why Mexico is a third world nation and countries like Germany and Japan aren't is because of acquired wealth. Japan and Germany fared well during the colonial era. They had colonies, they were "allowed" to produce. Countries like Mexico served as a "middle" country. Neo-colonized if you will. Foreign factories with cheap labor. Its products were designed for its domestic market, hence less money. Its output was more focus on raw materials. WWII came and Germany and Japan got a pretty little fix. Mexico was still in the same category. The rest of the third world was worse off than Mexico.

If you really buy into the Anglo-Saxon, Protestant work ethic vs. Third World laziness...then I don't think you truly understand the problems of the third world and how to fix them.
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:47 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,033,451 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I hate the stupid American centrist, anti-third world POV THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THIRD WORLD CULTURE!!!! What so people from the third world are lazy. I am not lazy. The immigrant doctors in US med schools are not lazy. Corruption is rampant everywhere as well. In Mexico, corruption is also influenced and aided by US corporations and was a result of a colonial regime.

The thing that many Americans seem to forget is that they are not the only living beings on this planet. We helped cause the problem of the third world. Corrupt leaders backed with US dollars and corporate interest is possbily the LARGEST cause of the problem (as well as European greed). Why do you think China is making great in roads in Africa? It's most likely because they branded themselves as brothers rather than superiors.

Part of the reason why Mexico is a third world nation and countries like Germany and Japan aren't is because of acquired wealth. Japan and Germany fared well during the colonial era. They had colonies, they were "allowed" to produce. Countries like Mexico served as a "middle" country. Neo-colonized if you will. Foreign factories with cheap labor. Its products were designed for its domestic market, hence less money. Its output was more focus on raw materials. WWII came and Germany and Japan got a pretty little fix. Mexico was still in the same category. The rest of the third world was worse off than Mexico.

If you really buy into the Anglo-Saxon, Protestant work ethic vs. Third World laziness...then I don't think you truly understand the problems of the third world and how to fix them.
Who is colonizing Mexico now? Whose jackboot is on the neck of the Mexican people that they cannot improve their government?
Oh, thats right--- the Mexicans.
Unless Calderon, Fox and the rest are really US imperialists in disguise?
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:59 AM
 
608 posts, read 880,943 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Yes, Italy cleaned itself up -- and Mexico will have to do the same. I imagine it to be like a junkie....only they can make the decision to stop living an addicts life and usually it will take something drastic to make that decision for them.
All the well meaning love and support will not get an addict clean -- only they can make that happen.
You replied within a quote sort of hard to keep the thread going that way.

Quote:
Exactly, so how is Mexico the US' responsibility? And just what do you propose the US do about it -- besides continuing to accept Mexican illegals by the millions while simultaneously throwing millions of dollars to Calderon so that he can make improvements?
You are not listening or comprehending – it is in the interest of both countries to work together. Illegal situation cannot be addressed until secured borders and corruption are addressed. Crawl before walk. Accept that change does not happen over night especially with a different political system as ours.

Quote:
Why would you think I am so stupid as to be insulted if a muslim wouldn't accept a beer? How is that even remotely the same as saying that the US should not have to accept Mexicos 'undesirables'? Besides, whether a nation is one of cultural 'group think' or more individualistic the fact remains -- change can occur if the populace wanted it. And Mexicans will never be motivated enough to ennact change as long as the US serves as a societal safety valve for Mexico.

You are not stupid, just are judging another country by your ideals and not theirs. Not everyone thinks alike and no one way of thinking is necessarily right or wrong. Accepting different ideals is the first step to understanding. One cannot address issues without first understanding a culture. Bush already made that mistake in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quote:
Calderon wants his cake and to eat it to....he wants money from the US but he still wants to be able to export his poor to the US as well.

I repeat… You are not listening or comprehending – it is in the interest of both countries to work together. Illegal situation cannot be addressed until secured borders and corruption are addressed.

Quote:
Yes, lets look to the EU.......for a country to be admitted, it has to be in line with other member countrys in regards to human rights, and financial and societal stabilty. What could Mexico offer us? An unlimited supply of uneducated people willing to work for subpar wages? I certainly can see how that would appeal to corporations and politicians but exactly how does that benefit the US as a whole?
There you go again using your ideals and applying them to another culture. There is a reason why they are now moving away from the term “3rd World country” to Developing Country. Mexico is not the US get over it and move on. This is not to say that they cannot introduce fiscal and policy change. It takes time. Nevertheless Mexico is not doing too bad by being in the top 15 GDP wise.

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Old 03-12-2009, 09:04 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449
the under the table NAFTA that has operated for 30 years between DC and los pinos has not stopped. if you think america is rough you do not know mexico.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:05 AM
 
608 posts, read 880,943 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I hate the stupid American centrist, anti-third world POV THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THIRD WORLD CULTURE!!!! What so people from the third world are lazy. I am not lazy. The immigrant doctors in US med schools are not lazy. Corruption is rampant everywhere as well. In Mexico, corruption is also influenced and aided by US corporations and was a result of a colonial regime.

The thing that many Americans seem to forget is that they are not the only living beings on this planet. We helped cause the problem of the third world. Corrupt leaders backed with US dollars and corporate interest is possbily the LARGEST cause of the problem (as well as European greed). Why do you think China is making great in roads in Africa? It's most likely because they branded themselves as brothers rather than superiors.

Part of the reason why Mexico is a third world nation and countries like Germany and Japan aren't is because of acquired wealth. Japan and Germany fared well during the colonial era. They had colonies, they were "allowed" to produce. Countries like Mexico served as a "middle" country. Neo-colonized if you will. Foreign factories with cheap labor. Its products were designed for its domestic market, hence less money. Its output was more focus on raw materials. WWII came and Germany and Japan got a pretty little fix. Mexico was still in the same category. The rest of the third world was worse off than Mexico.

If you really buy into the Anglo-Saxon, Protestant work ethic vs. Third World laziness...then I don't think you truly understand the problems of the third world and how to fix them.
Term Third World is being replaced by Developing world. Agreed, posters on here are applying their US ideals to the rest of the world instead of understanding the true differences. It is only until one understands the differences that they can then truly understand. By the way, understanding doesn't necessarily mean acceptance but it is necessary if we are to holistically address immigration issues.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:12 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,033,451 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
You replied within a quote sort of hard to keep the thread going that way.


You are not listening or comprehending – it is in the interest of both countries to work together. Illegal situation cannot be addressed until secured borders and corruption are addressed. Crawl before walk. Accept that change does not happen over night especially with a different political system as ours.


You are not stupid, just are judging another country by your ideals and not theirs. Not everyone thinks alike and no one way of thinking is necessarily right or wrong. Accepting different ideals is the first step to understanding. One cannot address issues without first understanding a culture. Bush already made that mistake in Afghanistan and Iraq.


I repeat… You are not listening or comprehending – it is in the interest of both countries to work together. Illegal situation cannot be addressed until secured borders and corruption are addressed.


There you go again using your ideals and applying them to another culture. There is a reason why they are now moving away from the term “3rd World country” to Developing Country. Mexico is not the US get over it and move on. This is not to say that they cannot introduce fiscal and policy change. It takes time. Nevertheless Mexico is not doing too bad by being in the top 15 GDP wise.

I will not play moral relativism, I can understand that different societies behave in different ways. However, Mexico is not a third world country. They have money, they have education, they are thoroughly modern. But what Mexico does regarding its poor is wrong -- don't educate them, don't help them, just give them a map showing the way across the Rio Grande and build consulars to help them circumvent US immigration law. That is not cultural, that is illegal and shows no respect for their 'big brother' the US.

But OK, you believe otherwise. You believe that Mexico is not only in need of our help, but wants our help -- two seperate things imho, but what do I know?
So, tell me how the US can help Mexico? How can the US help Mexico change the way they look at their poor, and their drug cartel problems?
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I hate the stupid American centrist, anti-third world POV THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THIRD WORLD CULTURE!!!! What so people from the third world are lazy. I am not lazy. The immigrant doctors in US med schools are not lazy. Corruption is rampant everywhere as well. In Mexico, corruption is also influenced and aided by US corporations and was a result of a colonial regime.

The thing that many Americans seem to forget is that they are not the only living beings on this planet. We helped cause the problem of the third world. Corrupt leaders backed with US dollars and corporate interest is possbily the LARGEST cause of the problem (as well as European greed). Why do you think China is making great in roads in Africa? It's most likely because they branded themselves as brothers rather than superiors.

Part of the reason why Mexico is a third world nation and countries like Germany and Japan aren't is because of acquired wealth. Japan and Germany fared well during the colonial era. They had colonies, they were "allowed" to produce. Countries like Mexico served as a "middle" country. Neo-colonized if you will. Foreign factories with cheap labor. Its products were designed for its domestic market, hence less money. Its output was more focus on raw materials. WWII came and Germany and Japan got a pretty little fix. Mexico was still in the same category. The rest of the third world was worse off than Mexico.

If you really buy into the Anglo-Saxon, Protestant work ethic vs. Third World laziness...then I don't think you truly understand the problems of the third world and how to fix them.
Then please explain how both Germany and Japan were able to bounce back within one generation after WW II?

Both nations suffered horrific damage as in losing maybe 10% of their population (mostly men in the springtime of their lives), they had to pay reparations, and both nations had their physical infrastructure blown to smithereens.

The one that separates the above town nations from Mexico is human capital---------AKA a 'can do' attitude as well as the skills necessary for a First World society.

As for the colony thing: England, Spain, Portugal and France cut theirs loose shortly after WW II because the former were a net liability. Now look at how affluent all four nations are today because their people concentrated on taking care of the 'home front'

Mexico has been at peace since 1910 yet that nation is still a Third World basket case--------along with the rest of Latin America. Hell: Argentina is 97% White so racism is no excuse for its failures.
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:30 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
Term Third World is being replaced by Developing world. Agreed, posters on here are applying their US ideals to the rest of the world instead of understanding the true differences. It is only until one understands the differences that they can then truly understand. By the way, understanding doesn't necessarily mean acceptance but it is necessary if we are to holistically address immigration issues.
Explain what, in your opinion, would need to be done in order to 'holistically address immigration issues'.
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