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Old 03-13-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Here
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Cliffs....in English?
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:50 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
What a Mexican-American? It's highly doubtful that those Americans of hispanic descent whose roots go way way back before 1900, support unlimited illegal immigration.

There are those who have come more recently who believe that Mexicans are a superior race who are not expected to abide by our immigration laws. All nations have immigration laws. Mexico has immigration laws.

People who break the laws are owed nothing at all. Every illegal has the option of returning home and they have the option of trying to come legally. Not every single person in the world can move to the USA, it does not solve the problems of any country to simply have the entire population relocate to the USA.
Once again, we're talking "cultural disconnect" here. Mexico is still largely a Third-World culture...it's based on the concept of "us..the Mexican people" as opposed to "all others". That's how the Third World 'thinks'..."MY GROUP" as a cohesive 'bloc', united by a common ethnicity, against 'the world'.

The US is an 'artificial, man-made, First-World' society...its membership is founded not on ethnic ties, or religious principles, but on abstract notions of "law"....we are Americans by CHOICE, not by 'blood'. We have no commonalities except VOLUNTARY ones..i.e., we "choose" to be Americans, and NOT 'who our ancestors were'.

Unassimilated Third-World immigrants don't usually "get" this at first...that's part of the assimilation process. When you're 'fresh out of the Third World'..and ESPECIALLY if you're illegal...you're going to feel connected not to 'America', or its diverse people, but to your "tribe".

"Tribal thinking" and "ethnic alliances" won't work in a free and open, liberal democratic First-World society....a FEW groups may 'get by' with it, but obviously ONLY because MOST of us do NOT operate that way. If EVERY group in America thought of itself in terms of 'group', we'd quickly disintegrate.

When ethnic groups in America feel more 'bonded' with their fellow 'ethnics' in other countries, than they do with their fellow American citizens, it's a dangerous situation. Let this go on, or let it spread to ALL groups, and there'd be no way we could survive as a nation. It's that simple. Either we all assimilate, or we remain outsiders. And if very MANY of us are 'outsiders', the whole thing stops 'working'. You can't have a society unless you have 'societal norms'.
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Once again, we're talking "cultural disconnect" here. Mexico is still largely a Third-World culture...it's based on the concept of "us..the Mexican people" as opposed to "all others". That's how the Third World 'thinks'..."MY GROUP" as a cohesive 'bloc', united by a common ethnicity, against 'the world'.

The US is an 'artificial, man-made, First-World' society...its membership is founded not on ethnic ties, or religious principles, but on abstract notions of "law"....we are Americans by CHOICE, not by 'blood'. We have no commonalities except VOLUNTARY ones..i.e., we "choose" to be Americans, and NOT 'who our ancestors were'.

Unassimilated Third-World immigrants don't usually "get" this at first...that's part of the assimilation process. When you're 'fresh out of the Third World'..and ESPECIALLY if you're illegal...you're going to feel connected not to 'America', or its diverse people, but to your "tribe".

"Tribal thinking" and "ethnic alliances" won't work in a free and open, liberal democratic First-World society....a FEW groups may 'get by' with it, but obviously ONLY because MOST of us do NOT operate that way. If EVERY group in America thought of itself in terms of 'group', we'd quickly disintegrate.

When ethnic groups in America feel more 'bonded' with their fellow 'ethnics' in other countries, than they do with their fellow American citizens, it's a dangerous situation. Let this go on, or let it spread to ALL groups, and there'd be no way we could survive as a nation. It's that simple. Either we all assimilate, or we remain outsiders. And if very MANY of us are 'outsiders', the whole thing stops 'working'. You can't have a society unless you have 'societal norms'.
In one word: yup.

Side note: one huge reason that Jewish people tend to be so damn successful is their 'tribal' mentality includes virtually all Jews----------irrespective of race/ethnicity/socio-economic status.

Thing of the USA as being 300 odd million 'Jews' and one catches my drift.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,953,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Once again, we're talking "cultural disconnect" here. Mexico is still largely a Third-World culture...it's based on the concept of "us..the Mexican people" as opposed to "all others". That's how the Third World 'thinks'..."MY GROUP" as a cohesive 'bloc', united by a common ethnicity, against 'the world'.
That was how the Southern USA thought well into the 20th century.

Quote:
The US is an 'artificial, man-made, First-World' society...its membership is founded not on ethnic ties, or religious principles, but on abstract notions of "law"....we are Americans by CHOICE, not by 'blood'. We have no commonalities except VOLUNTARY ones..i.e., we "choose" to be Americans, and NOT 'who our ancestors were'.
Not all First World countries are countries of immigration like the US, Canada, Australia, France, Great Britain, or (Second World) Argentina.

Quote:
When ethnic groups in America feel more 'bonded' with their fellow 'ethnics' in other countries, than they do with their fellow American citizens, it's a dangerous situation. Let this go on, or let it spread to ALL groups, and there'd be no way we could survive as a nation.
Sounds like you're criticizing Zionism and the propensity of some US Jews to associate more with Israel than the US.....
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:23 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,409,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbide1981 View Post
is not anti-immigrant but anti-mexican..?
I have come to enjoy this forums very much but I see a lot of people saying they should be punish..they play the race..card...they broke the law...THEY BROKE THE LAW...

as an american citizen I have a right to express as I wish and can sense when my community is being attack by with the wrong intentions...
when we think of illegals ...we think of mexicans...when we think illegals...we think of mexicans breaking the law...

I know I have written a lot of articles blaming the politics and the system for all these huge mess which is entirely true...but tell me honestly when you see anglo americans protesting and not the latinos....I am not saying we should get paid reparations of any sort but just our fair earn money....

I am going to put some laws and some violations the american government have cause...for mexican americans see and feel that deep down it is the race care that plays along....

remember...supposly a lot of pro-deportation are all law bidding citizens...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo

Although the treaty promised that the landowners in this newly acquired territory would enjoy full enjoyment and protection of their property as if they were citizens of the United States, many former citizens of Mexico lost their land in lawsuits before state and federal courts or as a result of legislation passed after the treaty.[16] Even those statutes intended to protect the owners of property at the time of the extension of the United States' borders, such as the 1851 California Land Act, had the effect of dispossessing Californio owners ruined by the cost of maintaining litigation over land titles for years.

first rule broken...IT WAS A LAW...so if they farmed tamed the land...at their expense some europena LEGAL..LOL...CAME AND JUST TOOK IT FROM HIM...ok fair the winner takes all....

2."were talking 50 years after the mexican american war" Mexican Americans could vote and hold elected office in places such as Texas, especially San Antonio. They ran the state politics and constituted most of the elite of New Mexico since colonial times. However, property requirements and English literacy requirements were imposed in Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas in order to prevent Mexican Americans from voting. Some eligible voters were intimidated with the threat of violence if they attempted to exercise their right to vote
second law broke...do we still have winner takes all mentality?

3.They were also allowed to serve in all-white units during World War II. However, many Mexican American war veterans were discriminated against and even denied medical services by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs when they arrived home. over 300,000 served and yet how were they received...? another law broke....

4. Although Mexican Americans were legally classified as "White" in terms of official federal policy, many organizations, businesses, and homeowners associations and local legal systems had official policies to exclude Mexican Americans. Throughout the southwest discrimination in wages were institutionalized in "white wages" versus lower "Mexican wages" for the same job classifications another law broken to american citizens...were was our affirmitive action I forgot that came much later right...

5.Mexican Americans classified as "White", following anti-miscegenation laws in most western states until the 1960s could not legally marry African or Asian Americans. another law broken....isnt that what gays are asking for now....able of being recognize as a couple to the federal and state authorities?

6 Mexican Americans have found themselves targeted by hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan[38] It is estimated that at least 597 Mexicans and Mexican Americans were lynched between 1848 and 1928 in the Southwest. Mexican Americans were lynched at a rate of 27.4 per 100,000 of population between 1880 and 1930. This statistic is second only to that of the African American community during that period, which suffered an average of 37.1 per 100,000 of population. Between 1848 to 1879, Mexicans were lynched at an unprecedented rate of 473 per 100,000 of population. More problematic still is the fact that, despite the recent flourishing of academic literature on lynching, scholars also persistently overlook anti-Mexican violence where was the federal govermnet upholding the law theres? or hold on was the kkk the law in those sectors of the country?

7.During The Great Depression, the United States government sponsored a Mexican Repatriation program which was intended to encourage people to voluntarily move to Mexico, but thousands were deported against their will. More than 500,000 individuals were deported, approximately 60 percent of which were actually United States citizens.[40][41] In the post-war McCarthy era, the Justice Department launched Operation *******.
60 percent were american citizens...but their skin color...say something diffrent from the anglo point of view...another law broken..why was nobody defending the constitution in those days..

now I could put more...so where does all this brown pride come...where does all this nationalistic tone comes from....
DO I even have to tell you...we learn it from the anglos...but now...
now they want to uphold the law...they want to protect the law..now its all laws...now its writen on paper...ok...but by playing by those rules...now that so much damage has been cause to the pyschological fabric of the hispanic american MAYBE THATS WHY

were so PARANOID....THAT WE DONT NO IF YOU MEAN IT OR NOT...
AND THATS WHY WE PLAY THE RACE CARD....AND THATS WHY THERES SO MUCH HATE....you think grandaddies did not sit with there grandsons in there laps and said...listen son its a scary world outthere an know your place...but was that just hate or the feeling of injustice past into another generation? and you think people just forget.?

now its laws...laws...laws....
"ever heard laws were meant to be broken" thats something that the federal government in its 200 years of history have taught us....

Iturbide, I know it was unfair. However, we should not be looking at the past to build hatred toward anyone. The only purpose of looking toward the past is to make sure it doesnt repeat itself. No money or type of compensation will do so just let it go and think that this is a new generation that has nothing to do with the actions of the above laws. It also does not mean it is okay for us to "payback" by breaking the law.

Let it go...if it was done to your family...forgiveness is the best healing medicine
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:28 AM
 
365 posts, read 667,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Iturbide, I know it was unfair. However, we should not be looking at the past to build hatred toward anyone. The only purpose of looking toward the past is to make sure it doesnt repeat itself. No money or type of compensation will do so just let it go and think that this is a new generation that has nothing to do with the actions of the above laws. It also does not mean it is okay for us to "payback" by breaking the law.

Let it go...if it was done to your family...forgiveness is the best healing medicine
I assure is not that is that I lot of the people here just hide under the "prosendthemback coalition" with the excuse that their breaking our tax laws..laws..etc..when the top ten percent of the elite do pay for the illegals to be here....
and just look at this...
Anti-Immigrant Leaders" "Indecent Proposals: Top 10 Most Offensive Quotes from - [domain blocked due to spam]

Minuteman Project and president of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps,California anti-immigrant leader and publisher,Rep. Virgil Goode (R- VA), Neal Boortz, anti-immigrant talk radio host,Jim Gilchrist, founder of Minutemen Project,Frosty Wooldridge, anti-immigrant author and activist,Brian James, anti-immigrant talk radio host,Phil Valentine, anti-immigration talk radio host,

and alot more...but the thing is they dont represent the majority of americans...but yet they feed them all these garbage..thats why as
african americans,
asian americans,
mexican americans,
and whoever is here and its part of the social fabric and have love ones that might be caterogise as crimenals...then thats why I HAVE A STRONG OPINION ABOUT IT...





The first monthly payment was issued on January 31, 1940 to Ida May Fuller of Ludlow, Vermont. In 1937, 1938 and 1939 she paid a total of $24.75 into the Social Security System. Her first check was for $22.54. After her second check, Fuller already had received more than she contributed over the three-year period. She lived to be 100 and collected a total of $22,888.92.[30]

and if they feel so strongely about reform..and going about the legal way of things..then all those foreigners...that came the legal..way...lol "oppose to the natives of course"


http://www.willisms.com/archives/immigrationtousa.gif

that came from 1911 to 1980 that were mainly from europe...
21.7 million PLUS THEIR ANCHOR BABIES...pay the money back they being stealing from the system..
because if a healthy italian arrived here in 1911 with his wife and two chldren and him being around 25 years old.. I am pretty sure he was another Ida May Fuller reaping the benefits of a hoax system that now...me and my future family will have a burden paying back that money and last time I heard...is going bankrupt...
and trust me ..IT WASNT ILLEGALS FAULT..
so if they...they want a reform...return all that money that was stolen and its bankrupting america....
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:42 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Iturbide, I know it was unfair. However, we should not be looking at the past to build hatred toward anyone. The only purpose of looking toward the past is to make sure it doesnt repeat itself. No money or type of compensation will do so just let it go and think that this is a new generation that has nothing to do with the actions of the above laws. It also does not mean it is okay for us to "payback" by breaking the law.

Let it go...if it was done to your family...forgiveness is the best healing medicine
This sounds like what I'd call "The Voice of Reason".....we could use more 'reason'.....keep it coming...
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:04 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Originally Posted by majoun View Post
That was how the Southern USA thought well into the 20th century.

OK, so what's your point? The Southern US, as a matter of fact, came very close to destroying our whole COUNTRY at one time; spent the following century mired in racial segregation and poverty; and at any rate, a LOT of things that held true in the early 20th century were not things we'd want to repeat today. LASTLY, like it or not, the southern US, for all its baggage, is an integral part of the USA. What's your point ?


Not all First World countries are countries of immigration like the US, Canada, Australia, France, Great Britain, or (Second World) Argentina.

Once again, so what? There ARE some first world nations of great material prosperity, who AREN'T too fond of the idea of 'multiculturalism'...and these places don't make life simple for immigrants, either. Japan and Germany come too mind...Neither of them make a great effort to 'include' foreigners, or to 'reach out' to them...and such foreigners as DO arrive there, are pretty much on their own, to 'sink or swim'..so what's your point?



Sounds like you're criticizing Zionism and the propensity of some US Jews to associate more with Israel than the US.....
Not my post...can't speak to this...
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Iturbide, I know it was unfair. However, we should not be looking at the past to build hatred toward anyone. The only purpose of looking toward the past is to make sure it doesnt repeat itself. No money or type of compensation will do so just let it go and think that this is a new generation that has nothing to do with the actions of the above laws. It also does not mean it is okay for us to "payback" by breaking the law.

Let it go...if it was done to your family...forgiveness is the best healing medicine
Excellent points there.

Side note: despite the conquistadors abusing the Aztec, etc. women; I do not see the rage directed towards Hispanic culture vs. Anglo-------------never mind that (legal) Mestizos tend to be treated much better here in the Gringo USA.

The hypocrisy is astounding amongst the La Raza/pro illegal apologists.
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,902,291 times
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Hmmm, lets look at this through a hypothetical prism for a moment and get a different slant. If our economy fails here in the US and things fall apart and get REAL bad, will Mexico welcome a flood of "refugees" and such crossing the border heading SOUTH with free medical care, jobs,education for "anglo" children, special considerations for Non Spanish speaking people, and give the new "anglo" community a voice in their government? . Or.......??
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