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Old 03-15-2009, 10:01 AM
 
8,972 posts, read 10,473,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Hmmm, lets look at this through a hypothetical prism for a moment and get a different slant. If our economy fails here in the US and things fall apart and get REAL bad, will Mexico welcome a flood of "refugees" and such crossing the border heading SOUTH with free medical care, jobs,education for "anglo" children, special considerations for Non Spanish speaking people, and give the new "anglo" community a voice in their government? . Or.......??
No...of course not.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:02 AM
 
365 posts, read 501,150 times
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Excellent points there.

Side note: despite the conquistadors abusing the Aztec, etc. women; I do not see the rage directed towards Hispanic culture vs. Anglo-------------never mind that (legal) Mestizos tend to be treated much better here in the Gringo USA.

The hypocrisy is astounding amongst the La Raza/pro illegal apologists.
like a lot of you said...history is history...that was the past..the points that I establish....
are valid..if a
italian..HUNGARIAN...
family came from europe..the LEGAL WAY.....
and the reap the benefits of a social security system that is failing because truthfully they did not put money enough in the system to begin with ...I think
I THINK....THAT the government should make a law..and look for all of those foreigners...and anchorbabies..and charge them the free ride.....

or at least not complain when they start raising taxes when the system crashes...
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:10 AM
 
365 posts, read 501,150 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Hmmm, lets look at this through a hypothetical prism for a moment and get a different slant. If our economy fails here in the US and things fall apart and get REAL bad, will Mexico welcome a flood of "refugees" and such crossing the border heading SOUTH with free medical care, jobs,education for "anglo" children, special considerations for Non Spanish speaking people, and give the new "anglo" community a voice in their government? . Or.......??

good point that you establish...GIVE ME SOME DEMOGRAPHIC GRAPHS...of all the foreigners that came to mexico during the same period...
spanish..jews, muslims, peruvians, argentinian..and even americans have come to mexico in a moderate way...

and our govermnet...irresponsible...greed....would welcome millions of
foreigners across the ocean growing irresponsible...because if you really believe that they did not crease a ruffus here in the states then youre very wrong...I BET YOU..that african americans did not like their wages being suppres by recent...italians, russians...hungarians, etc....
CHEAP LABOR...
like a lot of you said..the ride is over...
even america the country that we so love..cannot
withstand..the free
social security...
free ride..
policing the world.."europe at our expense" "japan at our expense" and many more....

has bankrupt the country...so no the one that grew irresponsible was us not them...and now we want to blame all of our chaos...
on what 5% of the undocumented...? when they havent received...a dime of their social securty benefits..yet....and doubt they have...
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:15 AM
Status: "Back in Texas" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
10,591 posts, read 9,212,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbide1981 View Post
I assure is not that is that I lot of the people here just hide under the "prosendthemback coalition" with the excuse that their breaking our tax laws..laws..etc..when the top ten percent of the elite do pay for the illegals to be here....
and just look at this...
Anti-Immigrant Leaders" "Indecent Proposals: Top 10 Most Offensive Quotes from - [domain blocked due to spam]

Minuteman Project and president of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps,California anti-immigrant leader and publisher,Rep. Virgil Goode (R- VA), Neal Boortz, anti-immigrant talk radio host,Jim Gilchrist, founder of Minutemen Project,Frosty Wooldridge, anti-immigrant author and activist,Brian James, anti-immigrant talk radio host,Phil Valentine, anti-immigration talk radio host,

and alot more...but the thing is they dont represent the majority of americans...but yet they feed them all these garbage..thats why as
african americans,
asian americans,
mexican americans,
and whoever is here and its part of the social fabric and have love ones that might be caterogise as crimenals...then thats why I HAVE A STRONG OPINION ABOUT IT...





The first monthly payment was issued on January 31, 1940 to Ida May Fuller of Ludlow, Vermont. In 1937, 1938 and 1939 she paid a total of $24.75 into the Social Security System. Her first check was for $22.54. After her second check, Fuller already had received more than she contributed over the three-year period. She lived to be 100 and collected a total of $22,888.92.[30]

and if they feel so strongely about reform..and going about the legal way of things..then all those foreigners...that came the legal..way...lol "oppose to the natives of course"


http://www.willisms.com/archives/immigrationtousa.gif

that came from 1911 to 1980 that were mainly from europe...
21.7 million PLUS THEIR ANCHOR BABIES...pay the money back they being stealing from the system..
because if a healthy italian arrived here in 1911 with his wife and two chldren and him being around 25 years old.. I am pretty sure he was another Ida May Fuller reaping the benefits of a hoax system that now...me and my future family will have a burden paying back that money and last time I heard...is going bankrupt...
and trust me ..IT WASNT ILLEGALS FAULT..
so if they...they want a reform...return all that money that was stolen and its bankrupting america....
This is the ultimate example of what is so WRONG with social security! There are too few REAL contributors and too many takers. My 94 year old grandmother only worked for a few years in the 1930s and then was a housewife for the rest of her life. Her soc sec benefit is now about $1300/mo or so, despite the few years where she actually contributed anything to the system (1936,1937, 1938 & 1939). meanwhile on the opposite side, you also have the "losers" who die prematurely before they reach the age where they can draw the $ that was stolen from them when they were younger. The problem with the illegals is that most of them qualify for these socialist benefits due to their POVERTY. They did not invent the system, but they sure do TAKE ADVANTAGE of it! Their citizen anchor children qualify the family for a multitude of freebies. Ppl need to REALLY think about what happens when the illegals are given citizenship under the immigration reform proposals. Then the socialist gravy train will REALLY be rolling down the track at a locomotive speed. If that happens, there will be absolutely NO barriers for illegals to qualify for Social Security, Medicare, SSI plus all of the other benefits. They will readily apply, especially with all of the ethnocentric groups urging them to do so. It happens ALREADY. What will happen when they are ALL citizens and have all rights to apply for these freebies? By then, there will be too many Aida Gonzalezes bankrupting the sustem.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:34 AM
 
365 posts, read 501,150 times
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Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
This is the ultimate example of what is so WRONG with social security! There are too few REAL contributors and too many takers. My 94 year old grandmother only worked for a few years in the 1930s and then was a housewife for the rest of her life. Her soc sec benefit is now about $1300/mo or so, despite the few years where she actually contributed anything to the system (1936,1937, 1938 & 1939). meanwhile on the opposite side, you also have the "losers" who die prematurely before they reach the age where they can draw the $ that was stolen from them when they were younger. The problem with the illegals is that most of them qualify for these socialist benefits due to their POVERTY. They did not invent the system, but they sure do TAKE ADVANTAGE of it! Their citizen anchor children qualify the family for a multitude of freebies. Ppl need to REALLY think about what happens when the illegals are given citizenship under the immigration reform proposals. Then the socialist gravy train will REALLY be rolling down the track at a locomotive speed. If that happens, there will be absolutely NO barriers for illegals to qualify for Social Security, Medicare, SSI plus all of the other benefits. They will readily apply, especially with all of the ethnocentric groups urging them to do so. It happens ALREADY. What will happen when they are ALL citizens and have all rights to apply for these freebies? By then, there will be too many Aida Gonzalezes bankrupting the sustem.
and I agree with you...and youre complety right ...not being sarcastic..its true...but what I am saying is that a lot of half of americas population came after 1910 and did not put nothing in the system..and now the system is so broken where
right now...the old and sick..are consuming practically .....so much from the federal budget..last time I heard..25 was destined for social security..and they are the ones that are starting to flood our hospitals...and when that happens....your clogging the system...so it creates demand..where on the other end..its not provided so it raises the cost of everything...

in a lot of middle class third world countries...its doesnt cost 10,000 dollars to have a baby.....and its the elderly that are creating the effect...
so I think...FIND THOSE

Aida, jims, tims, and jasons.....and charge them...what they did not put in...and see what expression they would put..and if there not alive...then charge their grandchildren with it plus accumaliting interest....

when everything goes bankrupt....the babybommers should not complain when they tax them more to death...because our government..brought a lot of ILLEGALS....CALLING THEM LEGALS....AND SUPRESSING AFRICAN AMERICAN, MEXICAN AMERICAN...AND NATIVE "WHITE" AMERICAN WAGES...
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Earth
11,948 posts, read 13,081,288 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Not my post...can't speak to this...
The Southern US had what you consider "Third World cultural tendencies", like Mexico, yet the US has been considered a First World nation since the term originated.

You also made the assumption that English-speaking First World nations (as well as France, and one Second World Hispanic nation that used to be First World) represent ALL First World nations. Certainly Japan doesn't conform with your concept of "inclusive First World cultural tendencies", nor does Italy, or, to a lesser extent, Germany.

Usually, when I hear talk of "Americans associating more with a foreign country and putting it above their own", it's in an anti-Zionist/anti-Israel context.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by majoun View Post
The Southern US had what you consider "Third World cultural tendencies", like Mexico, yet the US has been considered a First World nation since the term originated.

You also made the assumption that English-speaking First World nations (as well as France, and one Second World Hispanic nation that used to be First World) represent ALL First World nations. Certainly Japan doesn't conform with your concept of "inclusive First World cultural tendencies", nor does Italy, or, to a lesser extent, Germany.

Usually, when I hear talk of "Americans associating more with a foreign country and putting it above their own", it's in an anti-Zionist/anti-Israel context.
I don't recall making these assumptions at all. Who said anything about 'English speaking'? Not I. The (former) culture of the Southern US? We BEAT the Southern US...a LONG time ago. Remember?

Don't know anything about anti-Zionism...(as I already told you).

Thanks for an enlightening conversation....
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,046,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
The Southern US had what you consider "Third World cultural tendencies", like Mexico, yet the US has been considered a First World nation since the term originated.
The key word being 'had': our American South is now quite First World.

Quote:
You also made the assumption that English-speaking First World nations (as well as France, and one Second World Hispanic nation that used to be First World) represent ALL First World nations. Certainly Japan doesn't conform with your concept of "inclusive First World cultural tendencies", nor does Italy, or, to a lesser extent, Germany.
Rule of Law, delayed gratification, sobriety, frugality, belief in education, lack of machismo, etc. are all hallmarks of First World societies.

Quote:
Usually, when I hear talk of "Americans associating more with a foreign country and putting it above their own", it's in an anti-Zionist/anti-Israel context.
Point taken. Although looking at the Muslim Arab world; for all of their oil riches, they sure have little or nothing to show for it.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Earth
11,948 posts, read 13,081,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Rule of Law, delayed gratification, sobriety, frugality, belief in education, lack of machismo, etc. are all hallmarks of First World societies.
If you consider "sobriety" and "lack of machismo" to be hallmarks of First World societies, than are you saying Australia isn't First World? As for "sobriety", that would exclude not only the Aussies but also every English speaking nation, even to some extent the US. The "frugality" part would certainly not include the US (or UK) until very recently, due to the economic crisis, nor would "delayed gratification" apply to the US at all until recent events.

If "lack of machismo" is characteristic of all First World societies, than Japan and Italy would not be First World.

I agree about rule of law as being very important for a society and a hallmark of a First World society (or a Second World society about to go First World), as well as belief in education. The other qualities can exist in First, Second, or Third World societies. Fourth World societies are generally too messy to have any of those qualities.

Also, if the American South can become first world (for the most part), it's quite possible Mexico could, over time.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:10 PM
 
365 posts, read 501,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
If you consider "sobriety" and "lack of machismo" to be hallmarks of First World societies, than are you saying Australia isn't First World? As for "sobriety", that would exclude not only the Aussies but also every English speaking nation, even to some extent the US. The "frugality" part would certainly not include the US (or UK) until very recently, due to the economic crisis, nor would "delayed gratification" apply to the US at all until recent events.

If "lack of machismo" is characteristic of all First World societies, than Japan and Italy would not be First World.

I agree about rule of law as being very important for a society and a hallmark of a First World society (or a Second World society about to go First World), as well as belief in education. The other qualities can exist in First, Second, or Third World societies. Fourth World societies are generally too messy to have any of those qualities.

Also, if the American South can become first world (for the most part), it's quite possible Mexico could, over time.
they dont understand and dont want to understan what were seeing is that Mexico is becoming more productive..and doesnt need so much people..american corporations....there not going to raise the wages
because thats the same reason they left america to begin with...

1.if you buy foreign cars..because their cheaper...you support illegals..
2.if you buy from wal mart...because is cheaper...you support illegals..
3.if you took money from your house as equaty...you support illegals..

should I keep going...where in a world...where population is just increasing...and the capitalistic system which is good in most of its ways...is not distributing the money correctly to pay for the damages that causes on the host society....LIKE MEXICO..
BUT AGAIN THEY DONT UNDERSTAN...
thats why the ones complaining about illegals are the ones that are not competitive enough to secure their jobs against them...and view them as a threat...
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