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Old 03-15-2009, 04:55 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Blaming the USA for everything is absurd and nonsensical, but so is blaming Mexico for everything.

Mexico should invest heavily in educating those communities that have a tradition of emigrating to the USA, so they learn to delay childbirth and are able to educate themselves it's not like they are disabled and their only hope is to emigrate to the USA or that they are beyond help.

But in all fairness if the USA gives them freebies is not Mexico's fault, the blame lies on a corrupt greedy government that decided that the advantages of having an illegal population are enough to forsake and leech the very citizens they've sworn to serve and protect! If they really wanted the problem to stop they would have cut the freebies a long time ago. But for some reason they don't, they don't fine or arrest any criminal employer either who blatantly violate the law with their criminal behavior of hiring illegals putting their own citizens in disadvantage, this corrupt government also decided it was more important to kill people on the other side of the world, just to get their oil, when those billions could have been invested in better health, education services, a program to fine and arrest criminal employeers, or whatever you want.

With these actions, the corrupt government of the United States is sending the signal that they don't really care about the rights of their own citizens or to enforce illegal laws, so why others should care about them?

If the USA government is capable of starting a war and violating another country's sovereignity and borders, using it's power to twist the arm of the security council to "legalize" an illegal invasion, why sould criminal employeers, drug dealers or illegal aliens care?
You continue to point out the fault of our politicians, the corporate crooks and the lack of enforcement of our laws and I continue to agree. You get no argument from me in this regard.

That being said, those who enter this country illegally, specifically from Mexico, were also given maps by President Fox who encouraged millions of the worst of them to illegally invade America for those jobs and freebies and also for the purpose of ridding Mexico of it's responsibility for it's societal burdens. Thus, hoisting them upon the backs of the American taxpayers. Therein lies the problem. Add to that equation the lack of morals, integrity and personal responsibility for their culturally embedded criminality and multiply that problem by the millions.

While I am sure that there are plenty of Americans who have committed crimes in foreign countries, it is an undeniable fact that the US is a better neighbor to Mexico than the reverse. I assure you that throughout it's existence, the combined numbers of Americans who have committed crimes on foreign soil (globally) will never equal the monumental number of mexicans that have raped, killed, maimed, and destroyed the lives of Americans on American soil. Additionally Mexico could never repay America for her generosity of the billions it has spent propping it up as a legitimate, functional country or for it's life long tolerance of Mexico's co-dependency, corruption and dysfunctionality.

At the end of the day there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the border. However, the generosity and tolerance of the US towards Mexico, IMHO makes the US the lesser of the two evils.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 03-15-2009 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 03-15-2009, 07:30 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
You continue to point out the fault of our politicians, the corporate crooks and the lack of enforcement of our laws and I continue to agree. You get no argument from me in this regard.

That being said, those who enter this country illegally, specifically from Mexico, were also given maps by President Fox who encouraged millions of the worst of them to illegally invade America for those jobs and freebies and also for the purpose of ridding Mexico of it's responsibility for it's societal burdens. Thus, hoisting them upon the backs of the American taxpayers. Therein lies the problem. Add to that equation the lack of morals, integrity and personal responsibility for their culturally embedded criminality and multiply that problem by the millions.
Fox's decision to print out maps and encourage millions of people to break in, was something really stupid and not something that you would expect from a good neighboor, that's what happens when people that aren't qualified for the job get it. But I assure you that just as George W Bush didn't really represent the interest of most Americans, with the exception of a few of them, the same happened with Vicente Fox, the only reason he became president was because he was the only real contender that could beat the PRI and finish the 71 year old dictatorship. At least under Fox's tenure we didn't suffer an economic meltdown like we did with former presidents, and those meltdowns had a much worse effect in emigration than those maps he printed. IMHO he did that because he and Bush must have made an under the table agreement, I'm glad that those two are gone

Quote:
While I am sure that there are plenty of Americans who have committed crimes in foreign countries, it is an undeniable fact that the US is a better neighbor to Mexico than the reverse. I assure you that throughout it's existence, the combined numbers of Americans who have committed crimes on foreign soil (globally) will never equal the monumental number of mexicans that have raped, killed, maimed, and destroyed the lives of Americans on American soil.
I don't know if you read the article I posted recently, the one that listed the top 10 cities where americans get arrested for breaking the law, 6 Mexican cities were in the top 6!!! and Tijuana was number one of the list.

Like I've stated in previous posts every country has her share of good and bad citizens, those who respect the law and those who doesn't, unfortunately it is easy to develop a negative concept of a group of people or a country by the few actions of some individuals.

Quote:
Additionally Mexico could never repay America for her generosity of the billions it has spent propping it up as a legitimate, functional country or for it's life long tolerance of Mexico's co-dependency, corruption and dysfunctionality.
No one has ever forced America to handout freebies for her illegal population, so Mexico doesn't owe anything to America for this, as it is something they did on their own volition.

The american government should also be hold accountable for being the number one illegal enabler in the world's history and for allowing that a codependent, dysfunctional and corrupt relationship to develop between illegal immigrants who break the law, and criminal employers who break it too. It should be the american government responsibility to think of her population first and crackdown on those who employ people illegaly and end the freebies.

Besides that in the past, America has done things that a good neighboor wouldn't do, like invading Mexico and getting more than half it's territory for no other reason than the desire to make America a big and prosperous country (on behalf of his southern neighboor) I'm not gonna make any claims to that land, or justify illegal immigration by this, because I repeat this happened in the past when neither you nor I were born, I'm just pointing this out to express why the US hasn't been an ideal neighboor either.

Quote:
U.S. government generally supported those who occupied the seats of power, whether they held that power legitimately or not. (President Wilson did condemn Victoriano Huerta's murders of Francisco Madero and Pino Suarez). Twice during the Revolution, the U.S. sent troops into Mexico.The U.S. has helped the Mexicans achieve independence and supported Juárez in his overthrow of emperor Maximilian, but has also supported dictators like Porfirio Díaz, while its ambassador to Mexico, acting without authority, conspired to assassinate Francisco Madero. The United States has also sent troops to bomb and occupy Veracruz and engaged in cross-border skirmishes with Francisco (Pancho) Villa and others.
United States involvement in the Mexican Revolution

All of this happened in the past, just as what Fox did, although that was more recent, I believe we should move on and talk about the problem that we have in the present, Calderon has never printed out maps or things like that.

Quote:
At the end of the day there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the border. However, the generosity and tolerance of the US towards Mexico, IMHO makes the US the lesser of the two evils.
What about Mexico's generosity? we sell Oil to the US to a price that is lower than the normal price, right now that the Oil is cheap again it might not make much difference, but when it was on it's peak this alleviated a lot of economic woes in the US.

During world war II, Mexico rejected an invitation from the German government to invade the US while they supplied us with tanks, and resources, 40% of the airplanes, tanks, vehicles, and other equipment's oil came from Mexico without it, the war wouldn't have been won.

Quote:
Asked to name the Allies in World War II, very few people would include Mexico in the list. Largely ignored by historians, it is time that Mexico's aid to the U. S. and the Allies is brought to the attention of both Mexicans and the world. Although their participation in actual combat was minimal, those Mexicans who were given the opportunity to show their mettle did so with bravery and elan. Mexicans should be proud of them, the Allies grateful to them. Had Mexico thrown in its lot with the Axis, the consequences might well have changed the entire course of history.
In a sense, Mexican commitment to the Allied cause rather than the Axis powers, had its origins in internal Mexican politics. In the late 1930's, President Lazaro Cardenas had declared Mexican neutrality, but even before the 1940 presidential election campaign between conservative candidate Juan Almazan and P.R.I. designate Avila Camacho, tensions between pro-fascist and pro-communist groups that had simmered since the middle 1930's began to erupt into violence.

U.S. Armed Forces was resolved and Mexico became the beneficiary of Lend-lease assistance, thus allowing the country to modernize its Air Force, Army and Navy. The improved climate now permitted U.S. petroleum technology and expertise to again become available below the Rio Grande. In fact, Mexican raw materials fueled over 40% of the U.S. war industries, a fact that historians have chosen to ignore. This in itself was a great contribution to the American and Allied war effort and merits acknowledgment.


We can only hope that the U.S. and the Allies will more publicly acknowledge Mexico's assistance during WW II. The Mexicans who shed their blood in the skies over the Philippines, as well as those who volunteered to fight for freedom under the Stars and Stripes deserve no less.
Muchas Gracias, Mexicanos. We who know you, salute you.
Mexico - Forgotten World War II Ally

Besides like I said before, I don't believe the US is generous for giving handouts for illegals, that's the same kind of "generosity" of an addict's spouse who gives him cocaine because he's addicted to it and she wants to be "generous"

Last edited by Travelling fella; 03-15-2009 at 07:44 PM..
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Old 03-15-2009, 07:42 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,034,103 times
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One thing I have always wondered is that if there wasn't European influence in the region would Mexico and parts of what is the US look like the area surrounding most of the Amazon. Would it be war paint and bows?
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Old 03-15-2009, 07:52 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
One thing I have always wondered is that if there wasn't European influence in the region would Mexico and parts of what is the US look like the area surrounding most of the Amazon. Would it be war paint and bows?
Perhaps, but let's remember that Mexico was home of some very advanced cultures, that were light years beyond the tribes of the Amazon, or those who settled in parts of northern Mexico and southern US.

The mayas for example, who settled in parts of the Yucatan peninsula and parts of Honduras, Belize and Guatemala, were advanced mathematicians and astronomers they discovered the 0 500 years before the arabs, and their astronomical calculations have a difference margin of less than 0.5% of those currently used by the NASA. although in my opinion, the civilization encounter had to happen eventually, and many good things came out of it.

Quote:
The Maya look to the heavens for guidance. The ancient Maya used observatories, shadow-casting devices, and observations of the horizon to trace the complex motions of the sun, the stars and planets. From these observations, the Maya developed calendars to keep track of celestial movements and the passage of time. Using a forked stick and the naked eye Maya astronomers would take observations and calculate the path of Venus and other celestial bodies. They could calculate with precision events such as solar eclipses and the alignment of Venus and other important planets.

Even the novice Maya investigator knows that the ancient cities were aligned with the heavens. Who hasn't heard about the pyramid of Kukulcan at Chichén Itzá where during the spring equinox (March 21st) the sun illuminates the stairs, and as the sun rises creating shadows, the image of a snake slithers down the sacred mountain to Earth. The exact opposite happens in the fall.
Quote:
The Maya understood the value of zero long before most of the world's civilizations and it was an incredible advantage to the Maya, for use in very advanced calculations. The Maya numbering system is based on 20 rather than 10. This means that instead of the 1, 10, 100, and 10,000 of our mathematical system, the Maya used 1, 20, 400, 8,000 and 160,000.
Mayan World: Maya or Mayan, The Ancient Maya, Science of the Maya, Astronomy, Mathematics, Cosmology and Religion
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
One thing I have always wondered is that if there wasn't European influence in the region would Mexico and parts of what is the US look like the area surrounding most of the Amazon. Would it be war paint and bows?
And had it not been the Euros (Hispanic and Anglo) that took over the New World------------I strongly suspect that the Japanese may have colonized it instead.

Japan has been a scrappy nation (on the level of England) for centuries now.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Fox's decision to print out maps and encourage millions of people to break in, was something really stupid and not something that you would expect from a good neighboor, that's what happens when people that aren't qualified for the job get it. But I assure you that just as George W Bush didn't really represent the interest of most Americans, with the exception of a few of them, the same happened with Vicente Fox, the only reason he became president was because he was the only real contender that could beat the PRI and finish the 71 year old dictatorship. At least under Fox's tenure we didn't suffer an economic meltdown like we did with former presidents, and those meltdowns had a much worse effect in emigration than those maps he printed. IMHO he did that because he and Bush must have made an under the table agreement, I'm glad that those two are gone

I don't know if you read the article I posted recently, the one that listed the top 10 cities where americans get arrested for breaking the law, 6 Mexican cities were in the top 6!!! and Tijuana was number one of the list.

Like I've stated in previous posts every country has her share of good and bad citizens, those who respect the law and those who doesn't, unfortunately it is easy to develop a negative concept of a group of people or a country by the few actions of some individuals.

No one has ever forced America to handout freebies for her illegal population, so Mexico doesn't owe anything to America for this, as it is something they did on their own volition.

The american government should also be hold accountable for being the number one illegal enabler in the world's history and for allowing that a codependent, dysfunctional and corrupt relationship to develop between illegal immigrants who break the law, and criminal employers who break it too. It should be the american government responsibility to think of her population first and crackdown on those who employ people illegaly and end the freebies.

Besides that in the past, America has done things that a good neighboor wouldn't do, like invading Mexico and getting more than half it's territory for no other reason than the desire to make America a big and prosperous country (on behalf of his southern neighboor) I'm not gonna make any claims to that land, or justify illegal immigration by this, because I repeat this happened in the past when neither you nor I were born, I'm just pointing this out to express why the US hasn't been an ideal neighboor either.

United States involvement in the Mexican Revolution

All of this happened in the past, just as what Fox did, although that was more recent, I believe we should move on and talk about the problem that we have in the present, Calderon has never printed out maps or things like that.

What about Mexico's generosity? we sell Oil to the US to a price that is lower than the normal price, right now that the Oil is cheap again it might not make much difference, but when it was on it's peak this alleviated a lot of economic woes in the US.

During world war II, Mexico rejected an invitation from the German government to invade the US while they supplied us with tanks, and resources, 40% of the airplanes, tanks, vehicles, and other equipment's oil came from Mexico without it, the war wouldn't have been won.

Mexico - Forgotten World War II Ally

Besides like I said before, I don't believe the US is generous for giving handouts for illegals, that's the same kind of "generosity" of an addict's spouse who gives him cocaine because he's addicted to it and she wants to be "generous"
For the record: had Mexico attempted to conquer the USA during WW II; that would have been the end of the former nation, why I say that is in the 1930's, Mx had 20 million people with virtually no industry whereas the USA had 130 million folks and many times the industry.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:47 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,747,010 times
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I feel sorry for the young woman dying from cancer. It's a tragic story.

The list of people to blame for her situation is endless. From the Mexican government who failed her, to the U.S. government who perpetuates illegal immigration and lured her here, to Border Patrol for failing to stop her from getting across the border, to the Medicaid people for not catching the fraud earlier.....(and finally)....to the woman herself.

With millions of impoverished Mexicans needing medical care, it's completely beyond me how the U.S. could possibly be expected to take care of them? There are 150 million impoverished people in Mexico...does anybody here really think the U.S. can bear the weight of that burden? We can't even manage to provide health care for our own citizens...how on earth can we take on the responsibility of providing medical care for the entire impoverished population of a 3rd-world country?
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:08 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
I feel sorry for the young woman dying from cancer. It's a tragic story.

The list of people to blame for her situation is endless. From the Mexican government who failed her, to the U.S. government who perpetuates illegal immigration and lured her here, to Border Patrol for failing to stop her from getting across the border, to the Medicaid people for not catching the fraud earlier.....(and finally)....to the woman herself.

With millions of impoverished Mexicans needing medical care, it's completely beyond me how the U.S. could possibly be expected to take care of them? There are 150 million impoverished people in Mexico...does anybody here really think the U.S. can bear the weight of that burden? We can't even manage to provide health care for our own citizens...how on earth can we take on the responsibility of providing medical care for the entire impoverished population of a 3rd-world country?
Very good post! yet 150 million people is 50 million more than the actual population of Mexico, which is 100 million approximately, of these 100 million not all are impoverished.

Yet I agree with you that nobody should expect to take care of even a single foreigner in their country.
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Perhaps, but let's remember that Mexico was home of some very advanced cultures, that were light years beyond the tribes of the Amazon, or those who settled in parts of northern Mexico and southern US.

The mayas for example, who settled in parts of the Yucatan peninsula and parts of Honduras, Belize and Guatemala, were advanced mathematicians and astronomers they discovered the 0 500 years before the arabs, and their astronomical calculations have a difference margin of less than 0.5% of those currently used by the NASA. although in my opinion, the civilization encounter had to happen eventually, and many good things came out of it.

Mayan World: Maya or Mayan, The Ancient Maya, Science of the Maya, Astronomy, Mathematics, Cosmology and Religion
Let's not also forget that many of those cultures considered human sacrifice the norm. It's a double edged sword, no pun intended
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:14 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,747,010 times
Reputation: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Very good post! yet 150 million people is 50 million more than the actual population of Mexico, which is 100 million approximately, of these 100 million not all are impoverished.

Yet I agree with you that nobody should expect to take care of even a single foreigner in their country.
Yep, you're right. I Googled it, and the population of Mexico (in 2008) was 109,631,255. I was generalizing.
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