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Old 03-24-2009, 10:20 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 15,940,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
I don't have an issue with black churches, but what I'm pointing out is that the Catholic church is not a church of division but of inclusion. Too bad that American protestant churches are so dysfunctionally segregated and politicized. Religion throughout history has been part of the culture, tradition, and spirituality of the people. The Hindu, the Buddhist, the Catholic churches are like that. But the Protestant churches have more to do with the here and now(excessively worldly and materialist) than with the salvation of the spirit.

the Church has not been "liberal" since Vatican II days under the reign of Paul VI. John Paul, Benedict and all of their cardinals have been rabid right wingers and generally not accomodating to anything that is not of the 19th century. The catholics may include illegal aliens in their fold, but largely want the gov't to fund them being here in this country. the catholic church would get more respect if itstayed out of political matters and used its great wealth to help the gov'ts and legitimate citizens out of their crises.
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:22 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Originally Posted by cjester View Post
In the US, the Protestants and their political affiliation are one of the same. For example: The mostly white churches such as Baptists, Presbyterians, and evangelicals are politically ultra conservative. While, most black churches are segregated by choice and serve as political pulpits and nothing else. At least with the Catholic Church, one finds some sense of religiosity, kindness and spirituality. It’s not all about about political agendas.
I fail to see your point. The mostly white churches such as Episcopalean, Methodist, Unitarian are politically ultra liberal. I don't think what you say about black churches is true, there is a lot of spirituality in them.

Lately the Catholic Church is all about political agendas. Instead of working to improve living conditions in Mexico, help the poor find ways out of poverty through self-control, education, hard work, respect for the laws, the agenda is to help as many as possible break the laws of the USA.

I believe though there is a split between the clergy and the laity. The bishops have become very political and have some open-borders agenda for their own purposes, not because open borders are really helping either country.
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:08 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,294,821 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I fail to see your point. The mostly white churches such as Episcopalean, Methodist, Unitarian are politically ultra liberal. I don't think what you say about black churches is true, there is a lot of spirituality in them.

Lately the Catholic Church is all about political agendas. Instead of working to improve living conditions in Mexico, help the poor find ways out of poverty through self-control, education, hard work, respect for the laws, the agenda is to help as many as possible break the laws of the USA.

I believe though there is a split between the clergy and the laity. The bishops have become very political and have some open-borders agenda for their own purposes, not because open borders are really helping either country.
I agree, it is a pity to see that the catholic church is a complete failure IMHO.

Why? the purpose of religion is to help humans develop a personal and fulfilling relationship with God.

The purpose of religion is to help humans live in harmony with each other.

Unfortunately few religions actually fulfill this purpose, most are trapped in their selfish agendas, and the Catholic church is one of the worst. No wonder why atheism is in the rise, and many former catholics have found relief in other Christian denominations or Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

Yet, the catholic church still holds an enourmous power and influence over millions of people, specially in the most impoverished nations, I wonder why they prefer to use it for selfish gains, instead of making this world a better place, they supposedly represent God's interests, I wonder what God would think of them, after all the 3 worst sins are

Hippocrisy
Lack of honesty
Lack of loyalty

Last edited by Travelling fella; 03-25-2009 at 03:23 PM..
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:50 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I agree, it is a pity to see that the catholic church is a complete failure IMHO.

Why? the purpose of religion is to help humans develop a personal and fulfilling relationship with God.

The purpose of religion is to help humans live in harmony with each other.

Unfortunately few religions actually fulfill this purpose, most are trapped in their selfish agendas, and the Catholic church is one of the worst. No wonder why atheism is in the rise, and many former catholics have found relief in other Christian denominations or Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

Yet, the catholic church still holds an enourmous power and influence over millions of people, specially in the most impoverished nations, I wonder why they prefer to use it for selfish gains, instead of making this world a better place, they supposedly represent God's interests, I wonder what God would think of them, after all the 3 worst sins are

Hippocrisy
Lack of honesty
Lack of loyalty
Martin Luther King was a good example of a spiritual man, a black minister who preached peaceful protest of injustice done to black Americans.

The American Civil Rights movement wasn't about people leaving their country but struggling for their rights as citizens to equality. It was also about a change of attitudes. Martin Luther King died for his cause, he made the ultimate sacrifice.

The Catholic Church could do much more. Instead of promoting the breaking of the laws here and supporting the cheap labor agenda which of course is all about greed and profits, it should look at root causes.

One time I listened to a panel discussion that was broadcast from Ciudad Juarez. There as a Mexican priest and others talking about the causes and effects of massive migration of people.

They weren't talking about massive migration to the USA but the effect on Ciudad Juarez of hundreds of thousands of very impoverished and desperate people moving in because of the NAFTA maquilas. They discussed how Juarez was a fairly small sleepy somewhat rowdy border town but stable, and with it's own regional ways but so many people were arriving with nothing more than the clothes on their backs, if there were 1000 maquila jobs, there were 10,000 people arriving to get one.

The citizens of Juarez could not possibly provide the services needed, the fire departments, police protections, schools and so the "umbrella communities" were seriously lacking needed infrastructure. Often these communities would pop up -- squatter towns of wood pallet and cardboard houses, unable of course to pay their share of taxes to support services they need. Mothers with children but no adequate day care services who had to leave even very young children home alone all day to work in the maquilas and the family support network was disrupted because so many people moving in from the south were fractured from families, so in many cases these women have no relatives to assist them.

This panel talked about the very serious problems that their town would soon face because they said massive migration leads to instability. They predicted many of the problems we're now seeing.

They summarized it this way "Massive migration results from social injustice and instability and massive migration causes social instability." It was sad because there was the chance for churches and society to look at root causes and address them and find solutions but they failed to do that.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,307 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I fail to see your point. The mostly white churches such as Episcopalean, Methodist, Unitarian are politically ultra liberal. I don't think what you say about black churches is true, there is a lot of spirituality in them.

Lately the Catholic Church is all about political agendas. Instead of working to improve living conditions in Mexico, help the poor find ways out of poverty through self-control, education, hard work, respect for the laws, the agenda is to help as many as possible break the laws of the USA.

I believe though there is a split between the clergy and the laity. The bishops have become very political and have some open-borders agenda for their own purposes, not because open borders are really helping either country.
Very true
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