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Old 03-25-2009, 01:57 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,035,044 times
Reputation: 2873

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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Why don't they separate themselves from "racists"? BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL USE OF THE TERM WAS NOT RACIST, BUT ONE OF IDENTIFY AND PRIDE IN WHO THEY WERE!

Yes there are extremist loons that have used the term and distorted it.

But if we have to paint everyone with a broadbrush, should we associate you guys with the stormfront posters, and racists that love to "secretly" join the ranks of other anti-illegals?
You wouldn't like that very much would you?
A lot of you guys say the same thing, a lot of you guys call yourselves "patriots". Is that a weeeirrd coincidence too? A weeiird accident?

Stop being a hypocrite, and just admit you don't understand a damn thing about the term "La Raza" and Chicano history in this country outside of the context of illegal immigration politics.

I'm not going to bash a legitimate political organization(NCLR) and give up a term that has a lot of history in this country, because someone is too ignorant to make a distinction between that, and extremists.

I'm not "distancing myself" from the term, it has history and means something to me, how about you distance yourself from your bias and trying to understand things outside the context of illegals?

Don't answer that, it's a rhetorical.
you know what? I will do more research on la raza. As I said -- maybe I'm wrong. It has been in my experience that there is a difference in having pride in ones ethnicity and being racist. There is a difference between some white guy getting ****faced on St Pats day and someone who talks about the 'white race' and keeping it pure - y'know? Or maybe you don't when it is 'your' guys doing the hating.

Oh -- and please, I can't even believe you would write this:
But if we have to paint everyone with a broadbrush, should we associate you guys with the stormfront posters, and racists that love to "secretly" join the ranks of other anti-illegals?
You wouldn't like that very much would you?
A lot of you guys say the same thing, a lot of you guys call yourselves "patriots". Is that a weeeirrd coincidence too? A weeiird accident?

People who are anti illegal immigration are always being accused of being racist on this forum. Either that or nativist, xenophobic, or bigoted. So yeah - I do know what it is like to be accused of racism.
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:10 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
You're making up your own story for it. Don't expect much else from you.

Would you be so scathing toward an African-American proud of who he is? Of a Japanese person proud of his roots? An Irishman? An Italian-American?
No, because you have an agenda specifically against Mexican-Americans. I don't see you cruising your high horse through any other country's forums. Just the Mexican forum.

You are distorting people having pride in who they are, and developing that pride and identity at a time when America made it very clear who the "superior race" was, and made it very clear what that "superior race" was entitled to in this continent.

You then throw a bunch of politics into it, mixing it up into the discussion as if it's naturally related to it.

This country was all about racial superiority, and when groups of people decide they don't want to gain approval of that dominant group, and wanted to be proud of who they are, you try to twist it into something bad and evil.

Just another white guy trying to wear the victim hat, in a time when America is as close to being equal as it's ever been.

Like I've told Mac, I'd rather live in a country where many people are proud of their roots and who they are(or as you guys seeing it, thinking they are more special than everyone else), than a nation where only ONE group thinks they are more special than everyone else, and everyone else has to "gain their approval". Believe it's not just "raza" who have pride and identity in this country.

You couldn't have your discussion about "La Raza" seperately without going into illegal immigration politics, because you know how your agenda would look.

For one, I'm not a believer in race pride because race isn't something you accomplish for yourself, it's simply an "accident" of your conception, nothing more. Why should anyone be proud or ashamed of their race? Race has nothing to do with immigraton, race doesn't force one to become an immigrant.

If someone with ancestors from Africa or Japan formed a group that called itself "The Race" (in whatever language) and insisted that all people from Africa or Japan had some special right to come here and were not obligated to follow the laws of the USA, then people would be outraged by those groups.

It's simple really. The USA has by far the highest number of legal immigrants of any nation in the world. It would be difficult to find a nation that has no immigration laws at all, saw itself as totally borderless. Even if all the people of the world want to come here, all the people of the world cannot so there has to be a legal system.

Another fact, most legal immigrants come from Mexico.

La Raza isn't satisfied with that. La Raza does not want orderly and just immigration. It doesn't want that African or Japanese would be immigrant given an equal chance to immigrate here. La Raza wants race preferences or a complete exemption for "their race".
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,371 times
Reputation: 66
I have to say that La Raza DOES have an agenda. They hide under the guise of bettering the 'Latino' community and PLEASE don't bring Obama into the picture because he has his OWN agenda. Or have we forgotten that he has an illegal aunt in this country?
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,658 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
For one, I'm not a believer in race pride because race isn't something you accomplish for yourself, it's simply an "accident" of your conception, nothing more. Why should anyone be proud or ashamed of their race? Race has nothing to do with immigraton, race doesn't force one to become an immigrant.

If someone with ancestors from Africa or Japan formed a group that called itself "The Race" (in whatever language) and insisted that all people from Africa or Japan had some special right to come here and were not obligated to follow the laws of the USA, then people would be outraged by those groups.

It's simple really. The USA has by far the highest number of legal immigrants of any nation in the world. It would be difficult to find a nation that has no immigration laws at all, saw itself as totally borderless. Even if all the people of the world want to come here, all the people of the world cannot so there has to be a legal system.

Another fact, most legal immigrants come from Mexico.

La Raza isn't satisfied with that. La Raza does not want orderly and just immigration. It doesn't want that African or Japanese would be immigrant given an equal chance to immigrate here. La Raza wants race preferences or a complete exemption for "their race".

La Raza is not tied to immigration. A group that has La Raza in its name has a certain stance on immigration.

La Raza is about culture, heritage, etc. It's not a term that came up as part of an immigration discussion, it has nothing to do with illegal aliens.

You're just using immigration to criticize Chicanos right here.
Your mind can't seperate Chicanos/Mexicans from illegal aliens and the debate around them.

Whatever, play off the prejudice, if you even realize it.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,371 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
la raza is not tied to immigration. A group that has la raza in its name has a certain stance on immigration.

La raza is about culture, heritage, etc. It's not a term that came up as part of an immigration discussion, it has nothing to do with illegal aliens.

You're just using immigration to criticize chicanos right here.

Whatever, play off the prejudice, if you even realize it.

omg whatevr! La raza is an organization is that right? And they advocate for latinos is that right? And they do not support ondocumented workers is tah right? And btw i really wasnt speaking to you. I just commented under you. I try not to comment you back because you tend to be really defensive and downright rude so please if you see me comment just disregard it. Thank you..
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,371 times
Reputation: 66
Let's be clear. La Raza is an organization who advocated for Latino civil rights. Nothing wrong with that. Now to say that it does not have a position on illegal immigration is just nonsensical. They have a definitive opinion on 'undocumented immigrants'. Their position is to leave the ones that are here, here, and help them out as much as possible in a nutshell. For those of you who didn't know or just don't want to accept that fact..
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,658 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negrapola1975 View Post
Let's be clear. La Raza is an organization who advocated for Latino civil rights. Nothing wrong with that. Now to say that it does not have a position on illegal immigration is just nonsensical. They have a definitive opinion on 'undocumented immigrants'. Their position is to leave the ones that are here, here, and help them out as much as possible in a nutshell. For those of you who didn't know or just don't want to accept that fact..
Let's be even clearer:

The National Council of La Raza is an organization, that advocates Latino civil rights(which according to your peers, there IS something wrong with that), and it does have a position on illegal immigation.
I'll repeat what I said that you somehow got confused:
Quote:
La Raza is not tied to immigration. A group that has La Raza in its name has a certain stance on immigration.

La Raza is an expression for a group of people, used to express their ethnicity. The term did not come up in the context of immigration. It is not related to immigration.

The term "La Raza" is not synonymous with any organizations that have that term in their name.
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,371 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Let's be even clearer:

The National Council of La Raza is an organization, that advocates Latino civil rights(which according to your peers, there IS something wrong with that), and it does have a position on illegal immigation.
I'll repeat what I said that you somehow got confused:



La Raza is an expression for a group of people, used to express their ethnicity. The term did not come up in the context of immigration. It is not related to immigration.

The term "La Raza" is not synonymous with any organizations that have that term in their name.









You just reitterated every single thing that I just said and yes La Raza is an organization. The National Council of La Raza. I think it's time to change your medication. The sad thing is that you're no dummy, you are just annoying..
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,658 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
For one, I'm not a believer in race pride because race isn't something you accomplish for yourself, it's simply an "accident" of your conception, nothing more. Why should anyone be proud or ashamed of their race? Race has nothing to do with immigraton, race doesn't force one to become an immigrant.

If someone with ancestors from Africa or Japan formed a group that called itself "The Race" (in whatever language) and insisted that all people from Africa or Japan had some special right to come here and were not obligated to follow the laws of the USA, then people would be outraged by those groups.

It's simple really. The USA has by far the highest number of legal immigrants of any nation in the world. It would be difficult to find a nation that has no immigration laws at all, saw itself as totally borderless. Even if all the people of the world want to come here, all the people of the world cannot so there has to be a legal system.

Another fact, most legal immigrants come from Mexico.

La Raza isn't satisfied with that. La Raza does not want orderly and just immigration. It doesn't want that African or Japanese would be immigrant given an equal chance to immigrate here. La Raza wants race preferences or a complete exemption for "their race".
Where did "La Raza"(presumably the NCLR) state that, mala? Youre not just making claims based on your own bias towards that organization(and/or ethnic group), are you? And why do you keep bringing up African and Japanese?
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:53 AM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,420,219 times
Reputation: 879
I dont know. We probably want them learning English.
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