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Old 03-27-2009, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbide1981 View Post
all I can say to your answers is that this is a globolised world this aint kansas anymore, so again if europe with its free ride military under american protection has suck in
Malta, Cyprus, Slovenia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary into the european union. so nafta was our answer,
this world is run in production and numbers. we as consumers cannot go around trying to preserve our labor force intact to a more competitive world without having consequenses. Mexico is just one of them, if we pay close to a 100 billion dollar in subsidies in corn affecting mexico directly do you know what a subsidie is?
american corporations and american government thats their plan to industrialise north america to confront the future
against china, europe, japan, etc. If you think were in a tight spot wait
20 years from now when most of our people our retired eating away the resources that maintain us at least competitive. thats why theres so much legal and illegal Immigration coming in theres no other way that our government sees to solve or losing composition in the worlds trading, financial, military systems or other words losing our gdp share. this is not 1950 anymore

what we need to do is have our closes friends closer and our enemies at bay and again if Mexico buys more then all the european union, and Mexican workers have proven there reliable then thats our neighbor. Not russia, korea, or poland.
You actually make a valid point without realizing it.
We have given western Europe and parts of Asia a free ride. Lets not forget Canada. Because of us these countries have not had to invest in a real Military. After all they have us. Is it any wonder that Mexico thinks that they should rate the same welfare system? The problem is that Mexico is not a poor nation. America should have learned a long time ago that it is just not worth the cost or effort trying to save 3rd world countries from themselves. Thats right not worth the cost. Not worth 1 drop of american blood, not worth 1 dollar of american tax money. Mexico's military on a good day is a joke. On a normal day its just an embarassment. There really is no reason that the population could not over through the Gov of mexico. Well there is 1. No resolve.
You said that we would lose 20,000 in a war with Mexico. Iraq had a veteran army. Arguably the best in the region. Better equipment than Mexico. We crushed them in less than 30 days.Mexico would take less than a week.. Here is how we get out cheap. We don't invade. We crush the military Machine, decapitate the Gov. Mass our troops on the border. Let Mexico implode and destroy or rebuild itself from within. At any rate the illegal crossings would be a thing of the past.
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:59 AM
 
365 posts, read 667,475 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
You actually make a valid point without realizing it.
We have given western Europe and parts of Asia a free ride. Lets not forget Canada. Because of us these countries have not had to invest in a real Military. After all they have us. Is it any wonder that Mexico thinks that they should rate the same welfare system? The problem is that Mexico is not a poor nation. America should have learned a long time ago that it is just not worth the cost or effort trying to save 3rd world countries from themselves. Thats right not worth the cost. Not worth 1 drop of american blood, not worth 1 dollar of american tax money. Mexico's military on a good day is a joke. On a normal day its just an embarassment. There really is no reason that the population could not over through the Gov of mexico. Well there is 1. No resolve.
You said that we would lose 20,000 in a war with Mexico. Iraq had a veteran army. Arguably the best in the region. Better equipment than Mexico. We crushed them in less than 30 days.Mexico would take less than a week.. Here is how we get out cheap. We don't invade. We crush the military Machine, decapitate the Gov. Mass our troops on the border. Let Mexico implode and destroy or rebuild itself from within. At any rate the illegal crossings would be a thing of the past.
I was kidding about 20,000 thousand guy its stupid even to argue this
think for a second from books that I HAVE read
Iraq under sadam husain spent 75 percent of his budget on military weapeons and his army. and were talking about 30 billion dollars gdp.
Ali Abunimah, Iraq's chilling econoomic statistics
veteran army they were divided into three ethnic races. it was more of tribes put together than a country.

Mexico is a 1.5 trillion dollar economy 50 times that Iraq that we invaded
50 TIMES!!! if you put that we actually fought the 40% were sunnis the ones that supported sadam thats what roughly what 11 million that supported sadams Iraq. Mexico has over 140 million inhabitants. thats like 11 iraqs and Mexico is not divided its all catholic. and your economic status is what projects for you to have war not and army on empty stomachs.

but again its all nonsense talking about war, as a continent we have bigger problems to face. our leader and mexican leaders recognize this.
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,327 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbide1981 View Post
Skilled Labor Shortage In The US? No, Just Greedy Corporate Conservatards! ę The Conservatard
The UnCapitalist Journal - Your Moral Obligation (http://uncapitalist.com/blog/?itemid=1577 - broken link)

Its good that we talk about laws, but dont you think that we as a country have a little more common sense then the ones in third world countries?
The discussion in these forums is that some are pro amnesty and majority are not. But if were a nation of laws doesnt that symbolize fairness?
we can say all we want but to the fairness to all of these is that our leaders and business love these cheap labor yes or no? so yes this people are violating our laws by coming illegaly to this country.

but the way you guys mention it here using the logic of saying there like robbers that came in at night and just took over your master bedroom. there had to be an insider yes or no? who open the door?
we can send them all back but just answer this questions
in world war 1, world war 2, koreas, 70, 80, 90,00-08 everytime we have a boom doesnt our corporations go back to the same ways?
"Whatís puzzling about this is that itís happened primarily because Americans keep voting against their best interest. Americans vote for the politicians who guarantee they will vote against a minimum wage, will support ďfree tradeĒ, and will grant tax breaks for corporations desiring to outsource. The American people donít value labor any more. When corporate executives go on the nightly news crying about how labor is so expensive and they just canít compete in the market place, the knee jerk reaction of the American people is to blame the greedy workers."

"Perhaps itís time we stop blaming American labor for whatís wrong with America and instead place that blame where it truly belongs: on the backs of lazy executives whose drive to make the most profit possible in the shortest amount of time is destroying America."

Your reasoning is as valid as the old 'entrapment' reasoning. Yes the drug dealer is on the corner selling drugs illegally, BUT there is a demand for it, therefore making it alright. Who allows the drugs to be imported into this country, the government. Who does not stop them at the borders and piers? It's profitable to allow drugs into the country correct? Sounds pretty absurd, right? Yet the drug dealers have a need also. Do the ends justify the means???
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:00 AM
 
365 posts, read 667,475 times
Reputation: 41
and just to clarify...I always have a point and dont have to tell me that "HEY you made a point and did not even realize it"
lol
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,327 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbide1981 View Post
first youre correct they need to be deported but would we fail to enforced them again in some future? lets talk facts in the last 100 years american companies and farms or the elites practically bring them here as scabs.

but there third world and we have higher moral standards right?

Poor illegal immigrants. You're right! They are pawns in this big chess game of free trade and enslavement!!
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:26 AM
 
365 posts, read 667,475 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
You actually make a valid point without realizing it.
We have given western Europe and parts of Asia a free ride. Lets not forget Canada. Because of us these countries have not had to invest in a real Military. After all they have us. Is it any wonder that Mexico thinks that they should rate the same welfare system? The problem is that Mexico is not a poor nation. America should have learned a long time ago that it is just not worth the cost or effort trying to save 3rd world countries from themselves. Thats right not worth the cost. Not worth 1 drop of american blood, not worth 1 dollar of american tax money. Mexico's military on a good day is a joke. On a normal day its just an embarassment. There really is no reason that the population could not over through the Gov of mexico. Well there is 1. No resolve.
You said that we would lose 20,000 in a war with Mexico. Iraq had a veteran army. Arguably the best in the region. Better equipment than Mexico. We crushed them in less than 30 days.Mexico would take less than a week.. Here is how we get out cheap. We don't invade. We crush the military Machine, decapitate the Gov. Mass our troops on the border. Let Mexico implode and destroy or rebuild itself from within. At any rate the illegal crossings would be a thing of the past.
hey tinman read this so you can understan what I am saying.
Military Power vs Economic Power (Part 2)
"For years China has maintained the world's largest standing army but has had relatively little military power. For as the size of its military has been large the quality and technology of its equipment has been low. In the last two decades as the expansion of the Chinese economy has grown pace the government has begun to modernise its military forces. Modern fighter aircraft, submarines, air-to-air missiles, ground attack missiles and supersonic anti-ship missiles are being added to the Chinese military arsenal. These advanced weapons are costly and China purchasing them would have been unthinkable before its economic resurgence. China is using its growing economic power to increase its military power."

Mexico only spends 0.5 percent of its gdp, way diffrently than Iraq, or even the united states per capita america spends almost 12 times more of its share of gdp then Mexicos.
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Old 03-27-2009, 02:00 AM
 
365 posts, read 667,475 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negrapola1975 View Post
Poor illegal immigrants. You're right! They are pawns in this big chess game of free trade and enslavement!!
see thats sarcasm? you can google that american corporations dont pay some of their respective taxes, we subsidies corn why? do you know the word subsidies and dumping mean in the text of globalisation? american corporations bought Mexican banks, owned parts of mexico that when Mexico exports its just american companies exporting to each other. not really incrementing wages.

so you can say all you want but you know what? whoever has the money
says what needs to be done and the rest obey, and I dont think Mexicans have a lot of say in mexico or in america.

fight all those questions I asked and then prove me wrong otherwise, I think youre ignorant on these specific issues.
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Old 03-27-2009, 02:43 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbide1981 View Post
hey tinman read this so you can understan what I am saying.
Military Power vs Economic Power (Part 2)
"For years China has maintained the world's largest standing army but has had relatively little military power. For as the size of its military has been large the quality and technology of its equipment has been low. In the last two decades as the expansion of the Chinese economy has grown pace the government has begun to modernise its military forces. Modern fighter aircraft, submarines, air-to-air missiles, ground attack missiles and supersonic anti-ship missiles are being added to the Chinese military arsenal. These advanced weapons are costly and China purchasing them would have been unthinkable before its economic resurgence. China is using its growing economic power to increase its military power."

Mexico only spends 0.5 percent of its gdp, way diffrently than Iraq, or even the united states per capita america spends almost 12 times more of its share of gdp then Mexicos.
One might wonder that with all that spare cash why doesn't mexico solve its own problems instead of looking to their northern neighbors all the time.
Of course its rediculous to even consider Mexico engaging in a war. With anyone... They just don't have the means.
All these weapons you discuss are a means to support that economic giant. The USA became an economic giant after WWII and in no small part because we had the means to project power.
Back to Mexico. Mexico is a victim of their own failures. By any measure they are a wealthy nation, and yet have their hand out begging for help. We forgave their debt, we flush millions in cash down the crapper trying to help a country that refuses to help itself. They are not alone. A good many 3rd world countries are in the same boat and for the same reasons. The masses refuse to rise against the elite class. Instead of invading the USA and then demanding we change to better suit them. They might use that energy to change the country they ran from.
At any rate I will say this for you. You are always polite.
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Old 03-27-2009, 05:19 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negrapola1975 View Post
Your reasoning is as valid as the old 'entrapment' reasoning. Yes the drug dealer is on the corner selling drugs illegally, BUT there is a demand for it, therefore making it alright. Who allows the drugs to be imported into this country, the government. Who does not stop them at the borders and piers? It's profitable to allow drugs into the country correct? Sounds pretty absurd, right? Yet the drug dealers have a need also. Do the ends justify the means???
To piggyback on this if there wasn't any scab illegal labor there wouldn't be any reason for unionized labor. Illegal labor and their will to work for almost nothing has resurrected Unions all across the board today.
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Old 03-27-2009, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,327 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbide1981 View Post
see thats sarcasm? you can google that american corporations dont pay some of their respective taxes, we subsidies corn why? do you know the word subsidies and dumping mean in the text of globalisation? american corporations bought Mexican banks, owned parts of mexico that when Mexico exports its just american companies exporting to each other. not really incrementing wages.

so you can say all you want but you know what? whoever has the money
says what needs to be done and the rest obey, and I dont think Mexicans have a lot of say in mexico or in america.

fight all those questions I asked and then prove me wrong otherwise, I think youre ignorant on these specific issues.

I don't appreciate the remark that I'm ignorant on this issue. The only thing that I said was that no matter what statistics you may throw around it DOES NOT justify them coming here illegally that's all. I find many people have to attack characters when you don't agree with them. Not very nice. I think Mexicans absolutely have a say in what happens in America and Mexico. Please don't tell me that America dangles the preverbial carrot and their eyes are glazed over to the point that they have no other alternative but be apathetic. All the stats in the world can't answer the question is it right or wrong.
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