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Old 03-27-2009, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,905,847 times
Reputation: 226

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Hitler wasn't sending people back to Mexico. The comparison between Mexico and a gas chamber is absurd.

Why aren't people middle class in Mexico? People aren't all middle class in the USA and how many illegals are actually middle class in the USA when they are brought in to be given dirt wage jobs with no health benefits or retirement plans? It's not as though you cross the border illegally and go from poor in Mexico to comfortable middle class in the USA.

What does it take to be middle class in the USA? By middle class that generally means finishing highschool at least, more often some college or trade school. Not having kids as a teenager, marry before you have kids, have the kids AFTER you have a job that allows you to support them and limit family size to what you can afford. That doesn't mean someone cannot have 6 or 7 kids -- they can but after they're making an income that allows those kids to have 3 solid meals a day and a home to grow up in.

The same things are required to be middle class in Mexico. That's why there is a growing middle class in Mexico.

The truth is, "hispanics" as a group are increasing in poverty rates. The reason is that many came here poor and they come to stay poor but poor in the USA means food stamps, free school breakfasts and lunches, Medicaid, cable television and iPhones while living in subsidized housing. Or the wages look great but you're getting $200 a week but sleeping on the floor of a one room apartment with 14 other men instead of sleeping in a humble home in Mexico with your family.
God you have a short attention span!
Read my post again, in context with FormerCalifornia's post, and you will(hopefully) see my problem is with wanting a society that only allows one religion and one political mindset.
No need for your "expertise" in Mexicans here, Mala.
That wasn't the point.

It really gets annoying always having to tell people what they're responding to on here......it's like everyone has a very small frame of reference.
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,905,847 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Your argument is farcical at best.

Speaking for myself: I have no desire to injure/murder people based on their DNA.

Now: if discussing putting PW Trash, ghetto Blacks and stereotypical Vatos in their collective place----------------that I can get behind. All of the above are essentially the same basic culture-----------or, the lack thereof.
Farcical?
My argument that a society where only one religion and one political ideal is ideal grounds for an authoritarian government(like Hitler's)?
Really?

Admittedly: You're completely lost, at best.
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,401,206 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
So it seems almost everyone is against political compromise, which is the hallmark of a democracy. While this discussion was a futile exercise in personal opinion that had no seeming bearing on reality, I think it's reflective. With both sides so polarized, that means nothing gets done. It means you'd rather have the status quo.
All countries have laws. Many authoriatarian countries are actually the most efficient at prosecuting them. However, in a democracy, the laws are supposed to represent not the minority, not even the majority, but the collective will of all citizens, provided they respect the people's rights.
And comparing illegal immigrants to murderers and rapists is ridiculous.
While in the shadows is indeed rhetoric, I don't mean to claim all illegal immigrants are hiding under tables. However, they are not properly accounted for in the current system.
And I will say again, the previous amnesty(s) failed because of incomplete compromise. THe enforcement issue must be assured, in a true and accountable manner.
Laws are there for the people. laws serve the people, not the other way around. Saying "there is a law" is not enough of an argument. There are lots of laws that have been modified because they were unfair, not comprehensive enough, or just needed exceptions in order to fix a big mess.

And so the left wing Democratic amnesty peddlers come out of the woodwork and begin their push to try to sway public opinion in favor of amnesty. Depending on how successful these amnesty peddlers are will pretty much determine when Obama comes out with his shamnesty. Obama has blatantly hispandered to La Racist and all of the other ethnocentric Latino groups promising them a push for shamnesty very soon but the groundwork needs to be laid. Actually, if the oppostion to shamnesty is fierce enough, it's questionable if Obama would ever try to push shamnesty.

So what is the case for shamnesty other than delivering millions of new Democratic voters for the Democrats? Correct. There is no other reason. Shamnesty in no way will solve illegal immigration. In fact, should America be dumb enough to allow a shamnesty, don't stand near the border, lest you get trampled by the next tidal wave of illegal aliens breaking in hoping the gullible Americans will grant them shamnesty too.
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:34 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,649,429 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
If you insist on murder being even remotely comparable to illegal immigration, and if others marginally agree with this comparison, then logic cannot be appealed to.
This is the same as comparing your attitude to the holocause. Ridiculous and counter-productive analogies useful for only rhetoric.
Comparing murder to illegal immigration is, admittedly, a stretch. We're all getting a little tired of this ridiculous, seemingly endless controversy, and sometimes we 'reach'.

Having TEN PERCENT of the ENTIRE POPULATION of a rather large, resource-rich, not-too-poor country, pick up and move, illegally, into the country next door, and to then loudly DEMAND the right to STAY there, and then to try to pass this off as 'all just a misunderstanding', is ALSO a 'stretch'....(a very BIG stretch). And trying to call those of us opposed to this as 'hardhearted racists and xenophobes' is not only a 'stretch', but ludicrous, as well.....and entirely subverts the definition of "racism" and "xenophobia", as well.

Face it, folks.....this is not a "logical" discussion among adults, as I've said before. It's a thinly-disguised racial battle...one in which BOTH sides can, and do, get a little 'silly'. Racial battles seldom lend themselves to great statements of wisdom, or carefully considered pronouncements of reason or logic.
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:37 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,688,534 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
And so the left wing Democratic amnesty peddlers come out of the woodwork and begin their push to try to sway public opinion in favor of amnesty. Depending on how successful these amnesty peddlers are will pretty much determine when Obama comes out with his shamnesty. Obama has blatantly hispandered to La Racist and all of the other ethnocentric Latino groups promising them a push for shamnesty very soon but the groundwork needs to be laid. Actually, if the oppostion to shamnesty is fierce enough, it's questionable if Obama would ever try to push shamnesty.

So what is the case for shamnesty other than delivering millions of new Democratic voters for the Democrats? Correct. There is no other reason. Shamnesty in no way will solve illegal immigration. In fact, should America be dumb enough to allow a shamnesty, don't stand near the border, lest you get trampled by the next tidal wave of illegal aliens breaking in hoping the gullible Americans will grant them shamnesty too.
I'm just trying to lay the groundwork (in this board anyway) for something the least despicable to all parties involved. I don't even neccesarily think an amnesty as generous as macmeal's need to be implemented in a compromise, although I would like it to be, of course.
again, if other factors, such as the enforcement that anti-illegal immigrant individuals so justly crave, is correctly enacted simultaneous to the amnesty, then past mistakes are at a lower risk of being repeated.
You act like I'm a paid employee. I actually have no stake in this personally one way or the other.
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:42 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,688,534 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Comparing murder to illegal immigration is, admittedly, a stretch. We're all getting a little tired of this ridiculous, seemingly endless controversy, and sometimes we 'reach'.

Having TEN PERCENT of the ENTIRE POPULATION of a rather large, not-too-poor country, pick up and move, illegally move into the country next door, and then to try to pass this off as a 'misunderstanding', is ALSO a 'stretch'....a very BIG stretch.....and trying to call those opposed to this as 'hardhearted racists and xenophobes' is ludicrous, as well.

Face it, folks.....this is not a "logical" discussion among adults, as I've said before. It's a thinly-disguised racial battle...one in which BOTH sides can, and do, get a little 'silly'. Racial battles seldom lend themselves to great statements of wisdom, or carefully considered pronouncements of reason or logic.
So which side of this ethnic/racial battle am I on? I'm not hispanic.
Many of the anti-illegal poster's here are trying to claim that it's not a racial battle. I am also trying to take it away from that, into the facts. I guess I have no issue with illegal immigrants being hispanic, asia, or european, they should all be under the same rules. I don't see this an inevitably being a racial battle except for those at the extreme.
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:47 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,649,429 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
So which side of this ethnic/racial battle am I on? I'm not hispanic.
Many of the anti-illegal poster's here are trying to claim that it's not a racial battle. I am also trying to take it away from that, into the facts. I guess I have no issue with illegal immigrants being hispanic, asia, or european, they should all be under the same rules. I don't see this an inevitably being a racial battle except for those at the extreme.
Sorry, but if it wasn't a racial battle, this forum would not exist. Illegal immigrants would have virtually NO supporters, and this entire subject would draw no more interest than 'adding a bedroom without a building permit', or 'different ways one may evade taxes'.

Racial discord is what DRIVES this issue; and that's why we have this forum. Ever heard of a forum discussing the 'pros and cons of those electing not to pay their rent'?....Ever wonder WHY no such forum exists?
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:52 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,688,534 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Sorry, but if it wasn't a racial battle, this forum would not exist. Illegal immigrants would have virtually NO supporters, and this entire subject would draw no more interest than 'adding a bedroom without a building permit', or 'different ways one may evade taxes'.

Racial discord is what DRIVES this issue; and that's why we have this forum. Ever heard of a forum discussing the 'pros and cons of those electing not to pay their rent'?....Ever wonder WHY no such forum exists?
touche.
However, I would be just as interested in defending the rights of say, homeless, regardless of race.
Yes, race is involved. But this is also a big issue and that view of it is overly simplistic. Plus, people of my stance would think of themselves as defending those in the US (yes, illegaly) and that we want to fix this problem in a way that overcomes racism rather than buys into the culture war.
I think its also the obsession with class as well as race that drives this forum topic.
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:53 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,751,274 times
Reputation: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Your opinion of an ideal society is scary to me. Intentional or not, I think youre describing some factors important to fascism.
Hitler took care of all the people of different cultures, religions, and political ideals.

While I can understand the need for a common language(while not necessarily having to hate and persecute those who speak other languages), your desire to have everyone in this country have the same religion and political ideals as you is scary.
It never ceases to amaze me how people like you play the "Hitler" card anytime anybody dares to suggest that a country of citizens who speak a common language and share a common culture is a far more harmonious and united country.

I may scare you, but that's because you're irrationally paranoid. You need to get over it and try to accept that, whether you like it or not, people tend to clan with people like themselves. That DOES NOT MEAN they hate those unlike themselves, or they want to eliminate or persecute those unlike themselves. This is YOUR assumption, and pertaining to my feelings, you are VERY WRONG.
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Old 03-27-2009, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,711,099 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Farcical?
My argument that a society where only one religion and one political ideal is ideal grounds for an authoritarian government(like Hitler's)?
Really?

Admittedly: You're completely lost, at best.
Actually: you must be the one who is 'lost' since most of your arguments are childish at best.

Again: face it; illegal aliens are losers by definition and they need to leave the USA.

If I were in Mexico illegally and got caught---------oh well. It certainly would not be Mx's problem/fault.
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