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Old 04-03-2009, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I'm not putting MY cash for a fence that won't work. I'm not putting MY hard earned money on troops along the border. I'm not in favor of tying up resources to round up people even suspected of being illegal, not with MY $. No...umm...HELL no. I'd rather see my cash work for me and go towards making better schools and hospitals...even if it does aid illegals.
Tell that to Obama: he is making plans to add additional personnel along our southern border.

You clearly have an agenda in favor of open borders.

Most Americans don't.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:10 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Tell that to Obama: he is making plans to add additional personnel along our southern border.

You clearly have an agenda in favor of open borders.

Most Americans don't.
Well...no... I just don't believe having troops there when we are in an ecomic downturn is smart. Many Americans have become too nationalistic to even go deeper into the issues. Bush got a second term because of this.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:40 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,186,325 times
Reputation: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Well...no... I just don't believe having troops there when we are in an ecomic downturn is smart. Many Americans have become too nationalistic to even go deeper into the issues. Bush got a second term because of this.
Unbelievable! Guarding our borders is now considered too nationalistic.... I am not saying we need to turn it in DMZ or West/East Germany. At the same time, I also don't want a completely wide open border with NO restrictions on movement.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
Unbelievable! Guarding our borders is now considered too nationalistic.... I am not saying we need to turn it in DMZ or West/East Germany. At the same time, I also don't want a completely wide open border with NO restrictions on movement.
I don't want an open border with "no restrictions on movement" either, and I'm sure that's how That1guy feels too.

Some people would like to see it turn into a DMZ or West/East Germany though.
People get excited at the thought of a heavily militarized border with shoot to kill orders for any Mexicans, including women and children. Honestly. Right here in this forum.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:22 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
I don't want an open border with "no restrictions on movement" either, and I'm sure that's how That1guy feels too.

Some people would like to see it turn into a DMZ or West/East Germany though.
People get excited at the thought of a heavily militarized border with shoot to kill orders for any Mexicans, including women and children. Honestly. Right here in this forum.
Right on the money!!! I'd rep, but I can't...so...consider this a rep.

Okay ideally in an ideal world with ideal fairness, yes no restrictions. However, as I mentioned only as a utopian ideal. But, once we're not quite there yet. With that said, a liberal fair, balanced policy without excessive amounts of people guarding the border.
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Old 04-04-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
I don't want an open border with "no restrictions on movement" either, and I'm sure that's how That1guy feels too.

Some people would like to see it turn into a DMZ or West/East Germany though.
People get excited at the thought of a heavily militarized border with shoot to kill orders for any Mexicans, including women and children. Honestly. Right here in this forum.
I do not like the idea of shooting anyone: that stated; our southern border needs to be secured by any (legal) means necessary--------------you draw your own conclusions. And by securing it: that also includes movement into Mexico as well.
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Old 04-04-2009, 06:51 AM
 
Location: in area code 919 & from 716
928 posts, read 1,202,390 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Well, from my personal perspective, the illegal immigrant impact is significant.

I moved from the midwest to California a couple of years ago for one single reason, to provide an adequate day program for my significantly handicapped adult daughter. The program in Ohio was very poor, unless the person had a reasonable degree of ability to be independent, and our daughter doesn't.

The program in California is great, but in the process of being reduced due to budget cuts. A major reason the state is in such dire financial circumstances is due to the support cost of illegal immigrant dependent children.

As a consequence, we have already seen the program have to shut down for two full weeks in December, and now another cutback is being discussed for April.
I an understand your situation. Someone I know has a handicapped adult they are responsible for.

HOWEVER: your situation is perfect JUST US (and missing on the level of Justice)

You Say:
Quote:
A major reason the state is in such dire financial circumstances is due to the support cost of illegal immigrant dependent children.
Yet you left your previous state to get state funded assistance.
... It's JUST US at it's shining moment.
I am sure you will be angry and will be thinking some scathing thoughts

BUT if you are honest with yourself - You will understand what I am saying is right.
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:43 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I do not like the idea of shooting anyone: that stated; our southern border needs to be secured by any (legal) means necessary--------------you draw your own conclusions. And by securing it: that also includes movement into Mexico as well.
Having NEVER in my memory commented on these wacko "shoot illegals" posts (which I consider too abhorrent for serious discussion, the work of angry 'cranks', and quite beyond the limits of ANY civilized society), I'm nevetheless reminded of a documentary I saw a year or so ago on California prisons.

At one prison, the head warden took the reporter out to the 'perimeter' to view his brand-new, state-of-the-art electric fence. It existed (at that time) in only a handful of prisons, but was viewed as possibly the 'wave of the future'. So gruesome and deadly was the thing (and capable of killing anyone TOUCHING it, instantly) that the "fence" was actually enclosed behind ANOTHER fence.(the old razor-wire type). It was also monitored by video cameras and motion detectors, making it impossible for anyone to 'accidentally' fall victim.

The reporter remarked something like, "Wowwww..that's pretty draconian. This fence would actually KILL anyone who touched it. Even the GUARDS have to take precautions before approaching it. Just how deadly IS it?"

The warden turned to him and said something like "Actually, it's not deadly at ALL...since at this point, no one has ever touched...or even APPROACHED it....and the 'word in the yard' is that no one is ever likely to try. Its MAIN effect is psychological....everyone knows 'you just don't go there' "

So...does this mean "the State of California wants to 'fry' people"...well, no, not really. The State of California goes to great lengths, through means of verbal warnings, signs, guards, and non-lethal fences. to let people know that IF THEY CIRCUMVENT ALL THESE "STEPS", they may possibly end up "frying" THEMSELVES...and it seems to work, because at this date, NO ONE has 'tried' to beat the fence.

I suppose if that fence were on the border, rather than where it is, we'd be reading reports on how the "US Government had set out to electrocute poor Mexicans".....or "Feds install 'Killer Fence' to torment immigrants"..... Which, to SOME people, would seem like the truth, and that's all they'd need to know.

It's all in how you look at it, I suppose. I imagine you COULD say that Japan, Australia, and New Zealand are surrounded by a "Deadly Ocean", and that anyone who tries to walk there will be drowned....but then of course, THAT would sound silly, because no one 'installed' the ocean, nor would any sane person try to walk across it. Still, the fact remains that no one dies attempting to 'walk' into Australia, and that's because no one tries.

Meanwhile, I continue to avoid those hateful "shoot to kill" discussions, as I find them disheartening and repulsive. Just wanted to make the above observation..
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I do not like the idea of shooting anyone: that stated; our southern border needs to be secured by any (legal) means necessary--------------you draw your own conclusions. And by securing it: that also includes movement into Mexico as well.
I believe that as you've stated in several ocassions AB, the hammer is falling, the crisis, drug violence and other issues have started to wake up our both goverments who had no choice but to stop ignoring these issues and start working together in common solutions.

I believe that people is starting to realize that because we are neighboors, and because of the important amounts of trade and investment between both countries, we either stand up together or fall together, the US' government can't afford anymore to ignore Mexico neither can Mexico ignore the US and the common problems we face.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I do not like the idea of shooting anyone: that stated; our southern border needs to be secured by any (legal) means necessary--------------you draw your own conclusions. And by securing it: that also includes movement into Mexico as well.
And then you woke up!

The only movement into Mexico will be to cooperate in dealing with problems that both countries share and have contributed to.
If that.
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