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Old 04-01-2009, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
As I am my parent's neighborhood, now 40-50% Hispanic (roughly 20% Black and roughly 30-40% White.) I don't see brown lawns. I don't see chickens. I don't hear mariachi music. I see an SUV pulling into a driveway of a typical 1970s tract home. A son and daughter are helping mom with unloading the car. It's a Lincoln. They are speaking in English and Spanish. They are waving out to an elderly White couple up the street.

Umm...the future is safe as long as we don't alienate people. In actuality, the majority of California is not becoming like TJ. Look at Yorba Linda, now 1/3 Hispanic...still the highest income city of its size. I usually talk to lawyers and doctors whose last names are Diaz or Calderone. It'll be fine. Just as long as we are smart about everything.
I have no problem with people living around me who follow Middle Class (or higher) values: the PW Trash/ghetto Black/vato 'Hispanic' types are to stay in their place unless they grow up and quit playing the fool.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
First I doubt that you have ever hired a legal contractor. If you had you would know that when they bid on a job.They Estimate the hours, materials and labor needed to complete the job and charge according to the estimate. They don't get paid more if their crew is a bunch of lazy bums and take twice as long as the estimate called for. Your post is typical of the pro-illegal rhetoric.
My house was built in 2000. No illegal labor was used. I know because I was on the job sight daily. It was completed in just over 4 months. 1 month ahead of sched...The workmanship is excellent and my house is anything but a standard project. Everything from the materials used to the geothermal heat pump are anything but standard. So please spare us the rhetoric of we can't live without illegal labor. Illegal labor is a problem not a solution.
As you stated.

Especially with our pooched economy------------we certainly do not need those illegal alien losers.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
True.....and when you hire them, you'd better HOPE they never become legal...at which point, they'd soon realize they could work at the pace..(and demand the pay) of the 'local lazy bums'....

Nothing spoils a 'cheap operation' like an illegal crew becoming legal....it's like a 'hot' girlfriend becoming a demanding wife....
Indubitably.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:58 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Illegals in small numbers aren't really a big deal. You can understand to a point why someone facing a financial hurdle might pack up and head on over to work for a while here even if illegally. Some people do that, they don't really mean harm, they want to get back home. Picking up a rake and cleaning someone's yard for cash probably doesn't seem like a horrible crime to someone with a sick relative back home and medical bills.

The big problem with illegals is the sheer numbers, and also that not all have any intention to ever return home. Many have decided the easy life is here and so they will do anything to stay, they'll turn their children over to the worst kind of criminals to be smuggled into the USA, they'll conceive a baby and give birth in the USA figuring that's the way around the laws and a life of welfare handouts. Some illegals aren't here to work but to commit crimes of all kinds.

Massive illegal immigration doesn't do anything to improve the sending regions. People leave, they may or may not continue to provide financial support to their wives and children, if they get them smuggled into the USA and on government assistance, they no longer need to send remittances back. People packing up and planning to leave aren't building, aren't improving infrastructure, aren't working for needed reform.

Employers are also varied. Someone might have temporary work -- or someone comes by looking for work and there's a lawn to be raked -- it might not seem like too big a deal to give the guy a day's work. Then there are those who are looking for nothing but the cheapest labor, illegals are a way around the wage and labor laws. Big quick profits can be made by hiring illegals and they can be exploited.

So to me, an individual illegal might not be a horrendous person at all but the over all situation is not good. There has to be borders and laws regulating immigration. Just like I could decide to skip the paperwork and travel about Mexico without that country's permission, and maybe all I do is travel a bit and then head back to the USA, but at the same time, if I were discovered there illegally, I wouldn't have a real big reason to gripe if that country deported me back to the USA.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:04 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by boricuita View Post
I admire their hard work, once you hire a crew of migrant workers you never go back to local lazy bums.
You seem very racist, very likely to claim that white Americans and black Americans are racially inferior and cannot work hard.

In reality, illegals might be desperate and may work in inferior conditions because they have little choice. You can always threaten them with calling la migra if they get too big for their britches and start wanting things like paid vacations or sick time.

If you cannot find legal residents or citizens to work for you, I would imagine you are not an employer that believes in paying decent wages or providing decent working conditions. It's a convenient myth that Americans are lazy bums and that only one race is hard working. Remember-- your arguments are just like those of the slave masters of the past. They too had to profit off cheap (free) labor.
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Old 04-02-2009, 04:50 AM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,172,225 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
As I am my parent's neighborhood, now 40-50% Hispanic (roughly 20% Black and roughly 30-40% White.) I don't see brown lawns. I don't see chickens. I don't hear mariachi music. I see an SUV pulling into a driveway of a typical 1970s tract home. A son and daughter are helping mom with unloading the car. It's a Lincoln. They are speaking in English and Spanish. They are waving out to an elderly White couple up the street.

Umm...the future is safe as long as we don't alienate people. In actuality, the majority of California is not becoming like TJ. Look at Yorba Linda, now 1/3 Hispanic...still the highest income city of its size. I usually talk to lawyers and doctors whose last names are Diaz or Calderone. It'll be fine. Just as long as we are smart about everything.

Alienate people? What exactly is that supposed to mean? "just as long as we are smart about everything"? Exactly what do you mean?
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:52 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
[/b]
Alienate people? What exactly is that supposed to mean? "just as long as we are smart about everything"? Exactly what do you mean?
Well, trying to incorporate the new immigrants (legal or illegal) by offering ESL classes, more advance classes in their schools (typically in lower income neighborhoods), more after school tutoring sessions, and more adult education for the parents. This incorporates these people into the greater society.

The way I see it, we can either have a vertitable army on the border 24/7 with a huge wall. Essentially the border would become a sort of police state. Or, we can make it easier to cross legally (screening process required, but a much easier time for those that qualify. Instead of taking months or years, it can be a lot quicker). If we process them quicker and cheaper, this will cut down on the number of illegal border crossings, while allowing a minimal police force element at the border (not the armies and walls others have proposed. My cousin lives down in Chula Vista, CA...I don't think she wants a police state in her suburban Chula Vista home).

Also, we need to stop this ridiculous us vs. them thing going on. People saying like lilmisspatriot saying that California is going down the tubes because of Mestizo Mexicans. Is that really true? No. Or others saying that Mexicans have destroyed their neighborhoods with brown lawns and chickens and mariachi music. Well, you probably did not live in a great area to begin with...or your property values fell because so many people felt threatened that the supply pushed down prices which made it attractive to lower income people. This is what happened in Compton. People were so intolerant that they left for the San Fernando Valley, and Compton's home prices fell. The police force left with the White flight.

We need to be respond to the increase demand of people wanting to come into our nation. We need to plan for the infrastructure to hold them and us. We need to decrease waste to have the money to have that infrastructure to suppoert the increased needs. We need to also be socially aware and realize that just because a culture is slightly different, doesn't mean it's bad. We need to realize that being smart means not instilling fear or hatred. Some people on this board are truly anti-illegal immigration. I can respect that. Others are just racist. I know that there is a distinction, but to those that are racist...do they?
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Old 04-02-2009, 07:59 AM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,747,253 times
Reputation: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Well, trying to incorporate the new immigrants (legal or illegal) by offering ESL classes, more advance classes in their schools (typically in lower income neighborhoods), more after school tutoring sessions, and more adult education for the parents. This incorporates these people into the greater society.

The way I see it, we can either have a vertitable army on the border 24/7 with a huge wall. Essentially the border would become a sort of police state. Or, we can make it easier to cross legally (screening process required, but a much easier time for those that qualify. Instead of taking months or years, it can be a lot quicker). If we process them quicker and cheaper, this will cut down on the number of illegal border crossings, while allowing a minimal police force element at the border (not the armies and walls others have proposed. My cousin lives down in Chula Vista, CA...I don't think she wants a police state in her suburban Chula Vista home).

Also, we need to stop this ridiculous us vs. them thing going on. People saying like lilmisspatriot saying that California is going down the tubes because of Mestizo Mexicans. Is that really true? No. Or others saying that Mexicans have destroyed their neighborhoods with brown lawns and chickens and mariachi music. Well, you probably did not live in a great area to begin with...or your property values fell because so many people felt threatened that the supply pushed down prices which made it attractive to lower income people. This is what happened in Compton. People were so intolerant that they left for the San Fernando Valley, and Compton's home prices fell. The police force left with the White flight.

We need to be respond to the increase demand of people wanting to come into our nation. We need to plan for the infrastructure to hold them and us. We need to decrease waste to have the money to have that infrastructure to suppoert the increased needs. We need to also be socially aware and realize that just because a culture is slightly different, doesn't mean it's bad. We need to realize that being smart means not instilling fear or hatred. Some people on this board are truly anti-illegal immigration. I can respect that. Others are just racist. I know that there is a distinction, but to those that are racist...do they?
I disagree with just about every word you wrote.

First of all, if we are going to have a more liberal immigration policy, thn that policy should apply to ALL people, ALL over the world...not to just the peasant poor in Mexico and Central America.

We DO need the border to become a "police state", not only because of the endless number of impoverished who want to come here, but because of drug smuggling and violence on the border.

ESL classes perpetuate and condone illegal immigration. Immigrants should have a basic knowledge of English before coming here...there should be no need for ESL classes.

I could go on and on here, but I think you get my gist. And I need my Caramel Machiatto from Starbuck's, so I'm off now.
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:20 AM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,172,225 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Well, trying to incorporate the new immigrants (legal or illegal) by offering ESL classes, more advance classes in their schools (typically in lower income neighborhoods), more after school tutoring sessions, and more adult education for the parents. This incorporates these people into the greater society.

The way I see it, we can either have a vertitable army on the border 24/7 with a huge wall. Essentially the border would become a sort of police state. Or, we can make it easier to cross legally (screening process required, but a much easier time for those that qualify. Instead of taking months or years, it can be a lot quicker). If we process them quicker and cheaper, this will cut down on the number of illegal border crossings, while allowing a minimal police force element at the border (not the armies and walls others have proposed. My cousin lives down in Chula Vista, CA...I don't think she wants a police state in her suburban Chula Vista home).

Also, we need to stop this ridiculous us vs. them thing going on. People saying like lilmisspatriot saying that California is going down the tubes because of Mestizo Mexicans. Is that really true? No. Or others saying that Mexicans have destroyed their neighborhoods with brown lawns and chickens and mariachi music. Well, you probably did not live in a great area to begin with...or your property values fell because so many people felt threatened that the supply pushed down prices which made it attractive to lower income people. This is what happened in Compton. People were so intolerant that they left for the San Fernando Valley, and Compton's home prices fell. The police force left with the White flight.

We need to be respond to the increase demand of people wanting to come into our nation. We need to plan for the infrastructure to hold them and us. We need to decrease waste to have the money to have that infrastructure to suppoert the increased needs. We need to also be socially aware and realize that just because a culture is slightly different, doesn't mean it's bad. We need to realize that being smart means not instilling fear or hatred. Some people on this board are truly anti-illegal immigration. I can respect that. Others are just racist. I know that there is a distinction, but to those that are racist...do they?


So in other words, we hardworking Americans should just provide everything for those illegal aliens who break the law? We need to respond to the increase demand of people who want to come here? I don't think so. No one has a right to come here legally or illegally. We Americans don't owe illegal aliens or legal immigrants a thing. Perhaps people who want to come here should, do it legally and for the right reasons, learn English before they come here, be able to support themselves and assimilate.

There should be no illegal aliens here at all. Legal immigration should be low and controlled and for the benefit of the US and only if the US really needs it-not because greedy politicians and corporations want to pay under market wages with no benefits. The unemployment numbers for March just came out and based on those alone, no illegal alien should have a job or social welfare benefits and we should also seriously start to rethink the number of legal immigrants and visas that we allow. It is not the USA's responsibility to provide jobs, ESL, welfare, education for anyone who wants to come here-especially at a time with high unemployment numbers and other financial difficulties.

I much prefer the opposite of what you think should be done, deporting all illegal aliens and securing our border. 20-30 million people who have no right to be here will be gone and they will no longer be negatively affecting our infrastructure, our tax base, our schools, hospitals, etc. Perhaps these people should stay in their own country and demand from their own government what you think we Americans should give to them.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: in area code 919 & from 716
928 posts, read 1,202,654 times
Reputation: 453
My view is very simple:
ILLEGAL = Breaking the law
If you want to allow ILLEGALS into your home ... send me your address so one night I too can be an UNINVITED house guest and eat your food and drink your milk ... I want a healthier life too!

WITH THAT SAID: Let me propose a solution.

What are the REAL issue's here?
  • It's not that they are working!
  • It's not that they make enough to enjoy the fruit of their labor!
  • It's not that they are bettering themselves.
That's why most people migrated to this country!
The issue stems from the buzz words like:
  1. UNDOCUMENTED
  2. illegal

Basically speaking (as in not being totally specific) - here is the solution.

Convert the Undocumented into DOCUMENTED.
Issue migratory labor cards which are purchased MONTHLY.
What Does This Accomplish?
  • It creates photo & finger print record of everyone who is in the country. Imagine the benefit of controlling the use of illegal documents for personal benefits.
  • It prevents a people from being forced to become citizens of a country that most of their family is NOT in.
  • It allows people to legally get a drivers license so they can be insured.
  • It creates a monthly cash flow to offset the devastating cost of processing illegals for deportation.
  • In the event of an accident our law enforcement will be able to contact needed family members.
  • It will make it easier for people to go to family in times of need or celebration (like births & weddings & illness & funerals)

Let's be realistic. There is NO WAY America can afford to deport EVER one.

By making a monthly card mandatory we can find the criminals easier - they don't have a card!

Many of these people just want a good place to support family - they are not looking for section 8 housing - they are here to do what they are obligated to do for their family!

Many Americans need to take their and make it their own!
Be responsible! Let them be responsible!

Once that card is in place - EVERY undocumented worker caught working will be deported PERMANENTLY
and each one found at a place of employment will cost the employer $5,000.00 per illegal worker.

What do you want to bet that no politician has the guts to make this happen?
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