U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-02-2009, 03:03 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I beleive in a liberal, fair, open immigration policy. We should screen for criminals of course. We could institute a guest worker program. I think we have the opportunity to serve as a model for the rest of the world concerning immigration. It is an issue that every country faces.

I know that many on this board have not experience the seventh layer of hell (aka the former INS). It was inefficent, hard to navigate, and expensive. If we have a streamlined organization that quickly processes people (we have the technology and manpower), then why not?
Elaborate on your 'liberal,fair, open immigration policy'. What do you think will happen if this open immigration policy is adopted by the US?

PS. I have been to Canada, Bermuda, England, France, Austria, Greece and I lived in Saudi Arabia in the 80's. People should learn how to hunt, I graduated with honors and I drive a 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T. And my blood type is O +.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-02-2009, 03:37 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,327 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Elaborate on your 'liberal,fair, open immigration policy'. What do you think will happen if this open immigration policy is adopted by the US?

PS. I have been to Canada, Bermuda, England, France, Austria, Greece and I lived in Saudi Arabia in the 80's. People should learn how to hunt, I graduated with honors and I drive a 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T. And my blood type is O +.
Cool I was born in Riyadh...KKIA to be exact. I'm O-. Back on topic, I think that yes there will be an increase in immigration, however, I also do believe that given the time and money it takes (as you know) to uproot your entire life for another country would still deter people. Essentially, the free market, in a way, would determine movement (just like it does on a local level). However, with this system, efforts would be made to increase educational attainment.

The truth of the matter is, not everyone will come. Simply because of the up front costs to leave (it costs way more to live here than in Mexico...rent is much more expensive in California than across the border). Thus, some aid would be provided. However, I envision more work based aid. Welfare that is more job placement and training, than simply checks. So the condition to recieve your welfare check is that you must be enrolled in classes to aid in assimilation/job placement. This welfare would be minimal, since it is designed to aid those to obtain gainful employment, not to serve as an incentive to simply live on welfare.

I just see the ordeals my mother had to go through and think that there has to be a better way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 03:44 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I beleive in a liberal, fair, open immigration policy. We should screen for criminals of course. We could institute a guest worker program. I think we have the opportunity to serve as a model for the rest of the world concerning immigration. It is an issue that every country faces.
Wonderful...."liberal, fair, and open"....sounds good, at first glance.(particularly as opposed to "illiberal, unfair, and closed"). Sounds like a great THEORY to me.

NOW...how about the "real World"? Liberal, in what ways? Compared to what standard, or what othe nation? More liberal than Saudi Arabia? More liberal than Iceland, or Mexico, or China? What's 'liberal'?

"Fair"...to whom? Fair to anyone and everyone in the world who takes it upon himself to come here? Fair to those from NEARBY countries? Fair to those at the far ends of the world? Fair to the American taxpayer? To our wage earners? To big business? What's "fair", and who determines that?

"Open"? Open to whom? For how long?

"Guest worker program"? We HAD one, for years..called the "bracero" program..approved by the governments of Mexico AND the US, and beneficial to employers AND labor. Trouble is, SOME of the beneficiaries didn't want to go HOME...(and the rest is history).

"Screen for criminals"?...oh, REALLY? Ever hear of 'Special Order 40'? Several HUNDRED violent illegal-immigrant gang members are living OPENLY in California cities...their addresses well-known; yet they are immune from certain critical points that would allow their deportation, because of Special Order 40, (which was put in place to keep 'good' illegals safe from harassment by police). "Screen for criminals"? GOOD LUCK !..What do you propose we do when we FIND one? Ask him to leave?

You SOUND like a nice guy...just a few decades behind the real world, IMHO. We've already done "nice, liberal, inclusive" things, for years on end....and that's the whole POINT. The "nice" things we did (such as several amnesties) didn't work to end the problem...now we're proposing somewhat 'tougher' things. It's not as though we didn't TRY, though...and MILLIONS of Americans who immigrated here legally...(or were once given amnesty) are evidence of our 'niceness'. What we're discussing on this forum is the REST of the problem...the part that wasn't solved by your "humane" methods. We've been there...done that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 04:27 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,746,816 times
Reputation: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I beleive in a liberal, fair, open immigration policy. We should screen for criminals of course. We could institute a guest worker program. I think we have the opportunity to serve as a model for the rest of the world concerning immigration. It is an issue that every country faces.
Hah! What a ridiculous statement! Not EVERY country has immigration issues. I mean, who wants to immigrate to Russia, Iraq, India, or North Vietnam, for instance?

Get real here...it's only the richest developed 1st-world countries that face the problems of too many people wanting to crash the party. And the fact is that these countries (including the U.S.) cannot absorb the weight of the world's poor and desperate...not unless we put ourselves at great risk of our country becoming just like their's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 04:29 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,746,816 times
Reputation: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Wonderful...."liberal, fair, and open"....sounds good, at first glance.(particularly as opposed to "illiberal, unfair, and closed"). Sounds like a great THEORY to me.

NOW...how about the "real World"? Liberal, in what ways? Compared to what standard, or what othe nation? More liberal than Saudi Arabia? More liberal than Iceland, or Mexico, or China? What's 'liberal'?

"Fair"...to whom? Fair to anyone and everyone in the world who takes it upon himself to come here? Fair to those from NEARBY countries? Fair to those at the far ends of the world? Fair to the American taxpayer? To our wage earners? To big business? What's "fair", and who determines that?

"Open"? Open to whom? For how long?

"Guest worker program"? We HAD one, for years..called the "bracero" program..approved by the governments of Mexico AND the US, and beneficial to employers AND labor. Trouble is, SOME of the beneficiaries didn't want to go HOME...(and the rest is history).

"Screen for criminals"?...oh, REALLY? Ever hear of 'Special Order 40'? Several HUNDRED violent illegal-immigrant gang members are living OPENLY in California cities...their addresses well-known; yet they are immune from certain critical points that would allow their deportation, because of Special Order 40, (which was put in place to keep 'good' illegals safe from harassment by police). "Screen for criminals"? GOOD LUCK !..What do you propose we do when we FIND one? Ask him to leave?

You SOUND like a nice guy...just a few decades behind the real world, IMHO. We've already done "nice, liberal, inclusive" things, for years on end....and that's the whole POINT. The "nice" things we did (such as several amnesties) didn't work to end the problem...now we're proposing somewhat 'tougher' things. It's not as though we didn't TRY, though...and MILLIONS of Americans who immigrated here legally...(or were once given amnesty) are evidence of our 'niceness'. What we're discussing on this forum is the REST of the problem...the part that wasn't solved by your "humane" methods. We've been there...done that.
You go macmeal!! I couldn't have said it better myself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 04:31 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,894,200 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
Hah! What a ridiculous statement! Not EVERY country has immigration issues. I mean, who wants to immigrate to Russia, Iraq, India, or North Vietnam, for instance?

Get real here...it's only the richest developed 1st-world countries that face the problems of too many people wanting to crash the party. And the fact is that these countries (including the U.S.) cannot absorb the weight of the world's poor and desperate...not unless we put ourselves at great risk of our country becoming just like their's.


Therein lies the problem. You summed that one up quite nicely.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 04:35 PM
 
946 posts, read 2,153,691 times
Reputation: 481
I think everybody should spend a few months in a foreign country, hungry and looking for work. I've tried it and it's a very humiliating experience that changes your perceptions. For years we had migrants and very little argument over it. In my opinion, the issue is being driven by politicians anxious for people to forget about their other problems--which, by blaming immigrants, we can.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 04:44 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,894,200 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by teach1234 View Post
I think everybody should spend a few months in a foreign country, hungry and looking for work. I've tried it and it's a very humiliating experience that changes your perceptions. For years we had migrants and very little argument over it. In my opinion, the issue is being driven by politicians anxious for people to forget about their other problems--which, by blaming immigrants, we can.
There are Americans living in America that have spent their entire lives hungry and looking for work. I used to see them daily in downtown Chicago. No need to leave the country we have plenty of hungry, poverty stricken Americans. Which is exactly why we don't need to import the poverty stricken masses of the 3rd world and give them money, and social services that we can't afford. We certainly can't afford to give millions more of them amnesty.

Before coming to any forum preaching to the choir, you really need to educate yourself and come with some factual information, experiences, links or something. That way you can avoid the appearance of blatant ignorance and discounting yourself out of the gate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 04:55 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,186,043 times
Reputation: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by teach1234 View Post
I think everybody should spend a few months in a foreign country, hungry and looking for work. I've tried it and it's a very humiliating experience that changes your perceptions. For years we had migrants and very little argument over it. In my opinion, the issue is being driven by politicians anxious for people to forget about their other problems--which, by blaming immigrants, we can.
Who is blaming immigrants for problems in this country? I just want illegal aliens out because they aren't suppose to be here. Immigrants and legal aliens are not here illegally so they can stay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 07:26 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by teach1234 View Post
I think everybody should spend a few months in a foreign country, hungry and looking for work. I've tried it and it's a very humiliating experience that changes your perceptions. For years we had migrants and very little argument over it. In my opinion, the issue is being driven by politicians anxious for people to forget about their other problems--which, by blaming immigrants, we can.
What qualifications would you recommend for a person who seeks employment as a counselor for rape victims?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top