U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
Old 03-30-2009, 09:36 PM
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983


Originally Posted by foma View Post
Am I understanding this correctly? I've seen the same suggestion posted twice: join the military. You are asking someone who you abhor on the most fundamental level because of the wrongdoings of their parents to serve and protect a country whose people don't even want them? Yup, real convincing. I'm sure that goes right on the top of the list of solutions.
The military? I'm not sure it's that easy to join any more....many hopefuls MIGHT not be accepted. They may have no alternative but to leave.

On the other hand, you'll have to admit 'leaving' is a pretty gentle remedy for a fairly disruptive 'offense'. Just LEAVE....that's all. No punishment is being suggested...no restitution to the taxpayer....no jail time...no fine...just 'walk away' and we'll call it a 'push'.

You may feel that's "harsh"...and perhaps on some level, it is. But how many minor, non-violent offenders get this deal? From THAT perspective, it's amazingly humane....no hard feelings, just leave, and we'll call it even. Try pulling THAT off if you're caught speeding, or driving drunk, or shoplifting, or skipping out on your house payment.....most of those people would be HAPPY to just be asked to "stop" doing whatever they're doing, rather than to be prosecuted.

Huge problem....no 'popular' solution....but that doesn't mean it's not reasonable, or neccessary.

Old 03-30-2009, 09:59 PM
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,716,018 times
Reputation: 976
I just checked federal law. A non-citizen can join the military ONLY if he is a legal immigrant FIRST. So, his only solution is to return to his native country. If he does this voluntarily, he can return. If he is deported, he will never be allowed to return. So if he wants to be an American, he needs to take responsibility for his own life--be better than his parents--and return to his native country.
Old 03-30-2009, 10:08 PM
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
I just checked federal law. A non-citizen can join the military ONLY if he is a legal immigrant FIRST. So, his only solution is to return to his native country. If he does this voluntarily, he can return. If he is deported, he will never be allowed to return. So if he wants to be an American, he needs to take responsibility for his own life--be better than his parents--and return to his native country.
One of the provisions in the DREAM Act would permit illegal aliens to gain citizenship through joining the military. I guess that’s why they tried to bury the DREAM Act in a military bill under “stockpile” hoping no one would notice it. This is precisely why we must scrutinize every bill being introduced in Congress, because these crooks can’t be trusted.
Old 03-30-2009, 10:18 PM
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
That which I bolded is precisely how I feel and what I want to happen to every single illegal alien and illegally usurping 14th Amendment anchor baby in this country.

That being said, it's not my fault that he has been in this country illegally since the age of 4. You, the OP, every DREAMie and anyone else whose criminal parents made them accessories to their crimes would be better served by directing any and all anger, hostility and ill will towards those who are responsible for your illegality,confusion and nomadic existence; namely YOUR PARENTS.

We the US taxpayers owe none of you jack.
Exactly. This idea that we some how assume responsibility for dreamies and illegals because other than violating our immigration laws they behave is none sense. The OP's Parents sandbagged him. Not the USA, not the legal citizens.
Now the op is here since they were 4 years old. Based on the info provided has obeyed the law. No brainer. Self deport and return legally. I will welcome you here and be proud to do so.
As it stands the OP is part of the problem. As for the lawyer bit. The lawyer is taking your money. I am sure criminal lawyers say the nicest things to their clients also.
The fact is citizenship is like being pregnant. Your never almost pregnant. Your either pregnant or your not.
The OP is not almost a citizen. The op is 100% an illegal alien.
Old 03-30-2009, 11:02 PM
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,721,997 times
Reputation: 1050
Originally Posted by csllc View Post
I thought I'd find a place to express how I feel. There was a topic here about someone being an illegal alien as well. My story is similar but a bit odd at the same time and you'll see why as you read through the story.

My parents came here with a tourist visa that was valid for a one year. They brought me along and during that time I was only 4 years old. I'm sure this is common but they also decided to overstay their visa. Now that I think about it, back in the days, it was so much easier to obtain legal residence considering how the law was not that strict during that time but why didn't they? Did they not think about how it could affect me later on and how laws would progress? I simply do not know but now I'm the one facing the consequences for their actions. Luckily for them they were able to obtain Driver's License legally. Before, DMV's accepted foreign birth certificates to obtain one. Nowadays, you will have to go through an extra mile to obtain one and prove legal status ever since 9/11 occured.

Now I will get to the odd part. My family was able to obtain AUTHENTIC ORIGINAL SOCIAL SECURITY CARDS. They even got me one when we came to the U.S. This is why we were able to pay our taxes like any other Americans. This is also why I can open a bank account and I hold 3 credit cards under my real identity. I was able to attend Community College because I have an SSN. I am now living independently with my partner and the apartment is also under my name because I have an SSN. I'm a young entrepreneur and I was able to obtain an Employer Identification Number and my business is licensed under the state of Ohio. I am also going to start paying my federal taxes soon so my parents can no longer claim me for any tax refund. My business is concentrated on selling bulk items to businesses for resale such as electronics (mainly mobile phones) and softwares. I earn an average of $5,000-$7,000 monthly. Currently, I have a big client that I'm working with who will be buying from me on a weekly basis of 50 softwares that earns me $10,000 weekly. However, I split this profit with my partner's father because we have negotiated that he will be investing in my business to earn some extra income on his side. I'd still be making $5,000 weekly leaving me with $20,000 still. Life is great. I'm really loving life at this point. My parents are very proud of me and I've helped them along the way with my business and this has made me very happy but there's still something missing in my life.

My mom is still illegal but my father is in the process of obtaining his green card from my half-brother. My father should be receiving it by the end of this June or beginning of July. We have paid our lawyer the necessary filing fees and he said that once my father obtains his green card, he will be able to petition me as soon as possible. I am aware that because we overstayed our visas, we have to pay an extra fee since this is against U.S laws which my father has already paid for since this is required during the procedure. My waiting time will be 2-5 years. It still saddens me because I cannot drive and I have to rely on my partner to drive me around. I will never feel independent until everything is taken care of. It's gotten to the point where I was asking people if they knew someone from the DMV to simply provide me a driver's license since I hold a SSN. I've been informed that the only documents DMV's really check is the SSN and I have an original one. However, I won't be able to present any primary documents such as birth certificate, us passport, state id, etc because I don't have any of that.

If anyone can help me out, I would really appreciate it. I'm not talking about fake documents or anything but does anyone know if there are other exceptions to obtaining a drivers license or at least a State ID so I have some sort of identification? I feel like I should deserve one since I'll be legal in the U.S soon and I am paying my taxes monthly from my business. I've heard around that DMV's accept other form of identification as long as it matches your SSN but I'm not safe with just showing my foreign passport. All I really have is my foreign passport (which I renewed 1 year ago in Los Angeles CA so no I-94 stamp is presented because it's in my old passport that they took), apartment lease contract, school transactions, W-2 Form, SSN, debit/credit card, EIN with TAX ID, Business registration and vendor's license. If I obtain a DL or State ID, I'd feel better knowing I can be independent and then I wouldn't mind waiting 2-5 years for my green card. I am now 19 years old. I came to the U.S when I was 4 years old. It really does get depressing after 15 years of nothing and my only wish is to be able to obtain any sort of identification so I don't have to feel embarass around my friends because I don't have an ID.

All I can do/say is wish you the best of luck and tell you that you are a great writer!
Old 03-30-2009, 11:27 PM
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,327 times
Reputation: 66
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
I'm sorry, but my heart doesn't bleed for you. You and your family are NOT "practically American citizens" because all of you are in this country illegally, and the social security numbers you have are not valid (they were obtained illegally).

Overstaying a visa and then illegally obtaining a social security number and then paying taxes DOES NOT make one worthy of U.S. citizenship.
Everthing about your life here in the U.S. is a lie. And you have a lot of nerve coming on this forum and posting your whiny plea for us to help you continue your farce. You're actually asking people to tell you how to get around the legalities of obtaining a driver's license!

You really have a lot of nerve.

Great Post!!
Old 03-31-2009, 12:22 AM
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Originally Posted by csllc View Post
I can't believe how people can be so heartless.

We've discussed this with our lawyer already. We're practically American Citizens. We just don't have the title. Regarding the SSN, we've already asked about that and there is nothing wrong with it. We have proof of paying our taxes and doing EVERYTHING that American Citizens have been during for the last 20 years. As a matter of fact, the fact that we paid our taxes and we have every proof of document was a very strong case in our part. This actually quicken the procedures with my brother when his wife petitioned him.

People think it's easy to just pack up and go back to our country so we can reenter Simply the "legal" way. Do you know how difficult it's been for me my whole life? If I could leave the U.S, I would. For god's sake, I haven't even felt the soil of my own birthplace for 15 whole years! I should go back for what? So I can please the heartless people in here to satisfy justice in your country which I'm sure you're not even 50% proud of? If I go back to my country, I can't apply to go back. Like I said, I'm waiting for my petition in 2-5 years so I can finally have legal status. Am I just going to throw that away because people are concerned that I didn't enter legally? No way. I'm not going to throw that away. I've been waiting 15 years and I'm finally getting legal status in 2-5 years.

If people are concern about "illegal aliens" not paying taxes, well, I'm not one of them. I'm actually paying my taxes. I hold a DELIVERY VENDOR'S LICENSE and my FILING FREQUENCY IS MONTHLY. I'm probably paying more taxes than any average American Citizen because I don't have any children and my income is high (AVG. $5,000-$7,000) sometimes I double that amount because my business focuses on wholesale trading and there is consistent cash flow.

My family actually contributed in this economy. We didn't take advantage of anything if that's the issue here.

Btw, my SSN IS AUTHENTIC. It's under my real name. Even after my brother became a citizen, his SSN never changed because it's legal.

I have 3 credit cards opened using my REAL SSN. I have an Apartment Lease Contract using my SSN. I have an FEIN (Federal Employer Identification Number) using my SSN. I was able to get a Business License because of my REAL SSN. It's not fake. My parents told me, when we all got our SSN, ALL OUR INFORMATION WAS ACCURATE. Nothing was changed. If it was under false information, I wouldn't be able to open a Bank Account or yet apply for a loan because my birthdate has to be matched with my SSN as well as my full real name.

So what are the countries that have no immigration laws, no borders of any kind?

As far as I know all countries have immigration laws, and most have laws far stricter than the USA.

The USA takes in far more legal immigrants than any nation on this planet, and our population is growing extremely fast mostly through massive immigration.

You're in a great position to come here legally -- why would it be so impossible to follow the legal paths? Others must and the USA is about the easiest country of all to immigrate legally to -- however there are so many people who want to that it creates backlogs.

Immigration has to be orderly and fair. Breaking the laws shouldn't gain anyone something that abiding the laws denies someone else. Everyone believes their own situation is special and should exempt them from having to follow the laws but just because you're parents knowingly broke the laws doesn't earn their offspring something more than those people who don't break the laws don't expect to be given.
Old 03-31-2009, 12:41 AM
2,381 posts, read 4,409,314 times
Reputation: 475
Originally Posted by foma View Post
You don't need to prove yourself to them.

I know what you are going through is not easy. Just take it one day at a time. It sounds like you make good money. I really think it would be a wise investment to talk to your lawyer about how you can get a driver's license. There has to be a way.

In their defense, I think they're just very passionate about the topic. So much so that everything is black and white to them and there are no shades of gray. I am a strong proponent of immigration reform but I don't think it's as clear cut as "get all the illegals out".

You and your family have worked hard and soon enough, things will get better. Keep the faith and in the meantime, keep that bus pass handy!!
foma, in reality there is no way he can get a driver's license at this stage. He needs to wait until he gets his "work permit" which allows him to be here legally but not to leave the country. It is usually the last six months prior to getting temporary resident status. I guess it doesnt hurt to ask but I really dont think he can bypass the process.

There is no reason for him and his family to leave if they have the paperwork in process for legalization. Sorry guys, I know this hurts but legally there are steps he can take to become a legal resident. People will be upset regardless and until the laws are changed there is no reason to leave the country...in this case.

FYI, the ITIN number was developed in 1996. Those that arrived prior to the 90's were given valid social security numbers even when they were illegal. Prior to the 90's, undocumented immigrants were able to get driver license, state ID and valid social security number....believe it or not. The only thing they did not have was a green card.

foma, I also think this is not an issue that is black and white. It is not as easy as people think it is. I also want this immigration issue to go away and I also agree and disagree with some of the issues. I dont believe we will be able to kick out all 12 million people, nor will be grant 12 million permits for legal residence. It's just not possible.
Old 03-31-2009, 12:47 AM
2,381 posts, read 4,409,314 times
Reputation: 475
Anyway, the OP was not asking whether he should stay or go. His question was regarding a driver license. He already knows what he needs to do.
Old 03-31-2009, 02:48 AM
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,538,974 times
Reputation: 5210
Originally Posted by foma View Post
Am I understanding this correctly? I've seen the same suggestion posted twice: join the military. You are asking someone who you abhor on the most fundamental level because of the wrongdoings of their parents to serve and protect a country whose people don't even want them? Yup, real convincing. I'm sure that goes right on the top of the list of solutions.

when I went into the Army in 1983 I had in my unit a mexican that did not want to spend 7 years to become an american citizen. instead he spent 3 years in the Army and came out as a american citizen.

so joining the military is a valid point, unless you think that being an illegal alien should just be allowed to become a citizen ahead of all the people that are trying to enter legally.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.

Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top