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Old 03-31-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,399,484 times
Reputation: 392

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw0rdfish View Post
Meeting certain criteria not necessarily mean paying penalties. They admitted it was amnesty, may be because it was amnesty. Comprehensive Immigration Reform is not.
Comprehensive immigration reform is nothing more than holding actual enforcement of immigration laws hostage unless illegals are given an amnesty, possibly subject to some sort of penalty which the Democrats will no doubt forgive, what with most of any amnestied illegals being future Democratic voters and all.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,075 posts, read 1,776,799 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
The way I see it, we need to first start off with helping the entire population of the United States first (legals/illegals). Clean up inner city schools, reduce rural poverty, create green technology jobs, invest in our infrastructure, cut down on tuition for universities, universal healthcare (coupled with private care). All of these things will help all people in the United States. Investing in ESL programs, that actually teach English, will allow people to assimilate and succeed in school.

Okay, now the that the foundation is set, let's delve into immigration. We need to reduce the cost to enter into the country legally. We need to crack down on employers that employ illegals. We need to have a system that enables classes to be taught to illegals in order to obtain citizenship (this is because of the many children that had no say in where they live...thus, it's really unfair to them to deport them since they are more American than not). We need to work with other nations to facilitate easier legal access into the country. Right now, it's absurd. There's more...but this is just to start it off.
OK, I'll go along with some of that and even admit you have some really stellar ideas. I only have one big question, how are we going to pay for all this?? ESL classes, welfare programs (wick, food stamps, public housing) all come at a huge cost at a really bad time. Let's face it, the economy has gone to hell and millions of Americans are out of work. We have a system for legal immigration, classes and all, if you apply for it. I agree its not fair for the kids (anchor babies), but, what is your solution for that?
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:35 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,632,169 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
The way I see it, we need to first start off with helping the entire population of the United States first (legals/illegals). Clean up inner city schools, reduce rural poverty, create green technology jobs, invest in our infrastructure, cut down on tuition for universities, universal healthcare (coupled with private care). All of these things will help all people in the United States. Investing in ESL programs, that actually teach English, will allow people to assimilate and succeed in school.

Okay, now the that the foundation is set, let's delve into immigration. We need to reduce the cost to enter into the country legally. We need to crack down on employers that employ illegals. We need to have a system that enables classes to be taught to illegals in order to obtain citizenship (this is because of the many children that had no say in where they live...thus, it's really unfair to them to deport them since they are more American than not). We need to work with other nations to facilitate easier legal access into the country. Right now, it's absurd. There's more...but this is just to start it off.
I'd like to see all these things, too...PLUS, I'd like to see all criminals go 'straight', all families stay together, all parents raise their kids, and all men quit raping women, all religions 'get along', and all divorces become a thing of the past...I'd ALSO like to see an end to STD's, to gangs, to classroom bullies, to domestic violence, and to global warming AND hunger...and I'd like to see 'stupid people' get the respect that others get, and I'd like to see 'good people' rewarded more than 'bad people'. I'd like to see diseases cured, too....

However, until we GET to that stage, there are a few more practical things we could do on a smaller scale, in the interim...and illegal immigration is a similar situation. And no, I do not see 'including illegals' as 'part of our society' during economic hard times as a way to remedy the situation.....any more than I feel that 'finding jobs for gang-bangers' is a practical way to stop gang violence. NICE, maybe..but not practical.

And like the other poster says....who PAYS for all these ideas, anyway? And HOW? And what happens during the 5 years or so (or 500 years) before we GET there?
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:46 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,849,578 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Ok, we've already heard the reasons why people reject amnesty for illegals or want them deported, now tell us, why do you support them? after we get enough answers we can create a poll to see what is the main reason.

The purpose of these threads and polls is to create more understanding between different views, it would be nice if people with an opposiing view respect this thread so we can have an space for those who support them to fully express themselves, regards
I don't believe that having strict immigration laws works because it only allows those willing to break those laws to come in.

Just like how alcohol prohibition led to crime associated with the production and distribution of moonshine, illegal immigration leads to the Coyotes and the border tunnels. Simply put, we'll never be able to fully police the borders without a massive military presence so the safest way is to have open immigration with a system designed to maintain records on everyone who enters this country. Right now we have 10,000,000+ people around this country with no identification and who do not pay taxes...I think that's a far bigger problem than some Mexicans working in the farms of California.

In a time of economic crisis and budget gaps, don't we need to increase tax revenues? Do we really need to spend billions on a border war that is clearly being lost?

I live 10 minutes from Tijuana, so I have more invested in the border problems than basically anyone on these boards. I am thinking of my safety and the safety of my loved ones.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:45 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,085,116 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
OK, I'll go along with some of that and even admit you have some really stellar ideas. I only have one big question, how are we going to pay for all this?? ESL classes, welfare programs (wick, food stamps, public housing) all come at a huge cost at a really bad time. Let's face it, the economy has gone to hell and millions of Americans are out of work. We have a system for legal immigration, classes and all, if you apply for it. I agree its not fair for the kids (anchor babies), but, what is your solution for that?
It is a time of great economic upheaval, however, look at the massive push for public works. If somehow there was an oversight committee to ensure all of the funds that will go towards their intended projects, then many of my suggestions will be meet. Also, if we cut costs in certain sectors (prisons) we can put funds towards other uses. Legalization of marijuana will decrease the prison population. In California, if you miss your parole appointment, you are sent back to prison. This is a waste of tax payer money. Non-violent offenders are sent to prison for very very very petty crimes. Public housing can be made by allowing incentives for home builders to help build public housing (in my city, every new house that is built must pay $10,000 in infrastructure to the city itself, thus if these units are meant to be subsidized, these fees can be taken out of the equation. The units can then be partly subsidized and sold at a lower rate. Thus some of the cost is recouped).

The classes are not marketed well enough. I went to a high school full of immigrants. My dad taught at said high school. We both have never heard of classes to aid in obtaining citizenship.

Yes, these things will cost money. But, much of it is also trimming in certain places and allocating the funds toward other uses.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:51 PM
 
8 posts, read 57,395 times
Reputation: 18
I was reading a couple days ago but this hispanic crossed the border illegaly and never got caught. He wanted to look for a job to support his family but he ended up going back because our economy is so horrible right now that he couldn't even find a job. I remember a couple days ago how easy it was for hispanics to come and get a job. As a matter of fact, within a few days they're already working at some place! More and more people are rejecting the U.S.

As far as I can see, this is sort of stopping illegal aliens...

Now AMERICANS, let's just keep being materialistic, spend on useless things, getting loans from banks so we can destroy our economy more and let it lead to the great depression 2!
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,538 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by csllc View Post
I was reading a couple days ago but this hispanic crossed the border illegaly and never got caught. He wanted to look for a job to support his family but he ended up going back because our economy is so horrible right now that he couldn't even find a job. I remember a couple days ago how easy it was for hispanics to come and get a job. As a matter of fact, within a few days they're already working at some place! More and more people are rejecting the U.S.

As far as I can see, this is sort of stopping illegal aliens...

Now AMERICANS, let's just keep being materialistic, spend on useless things, getting loans from banks so we can destroy our economy more and let it lead to the great depression 2!

You know that is a great theory, however there's one problem. There is a vicious cycle going around. Americans are not earning sufficient wages therefore creating the need to use credit cards. Not all, but many. Taking out second mortgages, and livivng on credit has unfortunately become a way of life for many Americans, so I don't think it's truly fair to say "American's are greedy"..
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:00 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,717,133 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by sw0rdfish View Post
Meeting certain criteria not necessarily mean paying penalties. They admitted it was amnesty, may be because it was amnesty. Comprehensive Immigration Reform is not.
OK. Why do you support comprehensive immigration reform?
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,669,573 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
I don't believe that having strict immigration laws works because it only allows those willing to break those laws to come in.

Just like how alcohol prohibition led to crime associated with the production and distribution of moonshine, illegal immigration leads to the Coyotes and the border tunnels. Simply put, we'll never be able to fully police the borders without a massive military presence so the safest way is to have open immigration with a system designed to maintain records on everyone who enters this country. Right now we have 10,000,000+ people around this country with no identification and who do not pay taxes...I think that's a far bigger problem than some Mexicans working in the farms of California.

In a time of economic crisis and budget gaps, don't we need to increase tax revenues? Do we really need to spend billions on a border war that is clearly being lost?

I live 10 minutes from Tijuana, so I have more invested in the border problems than basically anyone on these boards. I am thinking of my safety and the safety of my loved ones.
The war against illegal aliens is being won, my friend.

Face it we as a nation have taken down much more powerful nations vs. a broken pipsqueak of a country such as Mexico.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:36 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,717,133 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by csllc View Post
I was reading a couple days ago but this hispanic crossed the border illegaly and never got caught. He wanted to look for a job to support his family but he ended up going back because our economy is so horrible right now that he couldn't even find a job. I remember a couple days ago how easy it was for hispanics to come and get a job. As a matter of fact, within a few days they're already working at some place! More and more people are rejecting the U.S.

As far as I can see, this is sort of stopping illegal aliens...

Now AMERICANS, let's just keep being materialistic, spend on useless things, getting loans from banks so we can destroy our economy more and let it lead to the great depression 2!
More and more people (illegals) are rejecting the US? What's the problem?
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