U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-01-2009, 11:24 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
Reputation: 22174

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
The U.S. is a very generous nation, and we have given more than our share of financial support to other nations. Mexico is not a poor country, and needs to start accepting responsibility for its citizens. This situation is now approaching the boiling point. If it isnít resolved soon, the eruption will be widespread and lethal.

I am actually a very compassionate and charitable person, whose heart is beginning to harden due to this illegal alien invasion. I donít like it, but it is what it is. I can only imagine the rage some feel whose hearts have never been soft.
I'm a compassionate person too -- to me massive illegal immigration isn't beneficial except to the cheap labor proponents.

First of all you have to look at root causes. Mexico isn't poor like you said, it's a country rich in natural resources that has made progress, but like the USA there are people who aren't doing so well. Mexico doesn't have the welfare programs we have and that is part of the problem, obviously Mexico's would-be welfare class is going to choose the USA since we have what they want, Mexico doesn't.

Then there are people who work hard enough or are willing to work but are chronically poor because they don't appreciate the need for an education. They don't see the need to delay childbearing until they can provide something for their children. To succeed in the USA, they would have to do the exact same things they would have to do to succeed in Mexico. Finish at least a secondary education, learn job skills, have a job and a marriage before starting a family and limit family size to the number of children they can support.

Of course I'm more against those coming for the welfare handouts but for the second type, there should be a better solution. Move from poor to middle class in their own country instead of coming here illegally and then demanding something be done for them. That would be better for the areas in Mexico they are from, a change in lifestyle that would lead to stability and middle class.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-02-2009, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,715,651 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Look, I tried cocaine, ecstacy, salvia, ether. I did not get addicted. Yet, me and my friends, we tried it. One's in law school, one's a PhD in sociology, I'm studying to get into business school. There is a gray zone for drugs. There are such people as college experimenters. We do exist. We are not morally bankrupt, nor are we the dregs of society. Go to Orange County. All the shiny subdivisions, and blue ribbon schools. TONS OF WEEKEND DRUGS. The kids are away, the parents are free to do a little here and there once a year or so. The kids are doing well in school, the parents are loving and good parents. They are financially stable. I think it's okay for the occasional user. I don't think we should fuel a war in which WE OWE MEXICO an apalogy and WE OWE MONEY TO MEXICO for said war.

I agree, Joe who takes things overboard is an idiot. Society doesn't need to save him. However, society doesn't need to punish responsible people who experimented a few times in college. We don't need to cause a nation to be in a crisis because of our hypocrisy. We owe at least the commitment to Mexico that we take responsibility for our strict drug laws and our huge drug demand that created the perfect storm for this crisis.
Somehow past use of illegal drugs is not going to hurt most people.

Being caught red handed doing the stuff is asking for major trouble.

Again: we owe Mexico nothing outside of sealing off our southern border and using any means necessary (within US law) to stop illegal aliens, weapons smuggling as well as drug runners.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 12:07 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,689,086 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Look, I tried cocaine, ecstacy, salvia, ether. I did not get addicted. Yet, me and my friends, we tried it. One's in law school, one's a PhD in sociology, I'm studying to get into business school. There is a gray zone for drugs. There are such people as college experimenters. We do exist. We are not morally bankrupt, nor are we the dregs of society. Go to Orange County. All the shiny subdivisions, and blue ribbon schools. TONS OF WEEKEND DRUGS. The kids are away, the parents are free to do a little here and there once a year or so. The kids are doing well in school, the parents are loving and good parents. They are financially stable. I think it's okay for the occasional user. I don't think we should fuel a war in which WE OWE MEXICO an apalogy and WE OWE MONEY TO MEXICO for said war.

I agree, Joe who takes things overboard is an idiot. Society doesn't need to save him. However, society doesn't need to punish responsible people who experimented a few times in college. We don't need to cause a nation to be in a crisis because of our hypocrisy. We owe at least the commitment to Mexico that we take responsibility for our strict drug laws and our huge drug demand that created the perfect storm for this crisis.
Well, this is the problem. Your stories are anecdotal. To deny that drugs have the ability to have very negative consequences on society is ignoring facts. You are referring to upper-middle class areas. If a child does get addicted, the consequences are often not as severe and it is easier to find ways out of it. Also, I do know some upper-middle class people who have gone whacko from drugs. Take enough hard stuff and it fries your brain, "makes" you do bad things. Harsh crack sentencing was actually passed in part with support from the black community because of the harm it was doing.
Overall, I support reforming the criminal drug system. This is already slowly happening, with specific drug courts. Drugs should be treated as a public health problem, not just a criminal problem. Marijuana, I have little problem with ending the prohibition. For a kid its already often easier to get than alcohol, anyway.
For other drugs, tread carefully. THe harsh prison sentences may not be the sole tool that we should rely on, but a sudden legalization of all drugs.. well... why exactly would you need a prescription for crack? Or should crack be legalized for casual use? It's definitely not a casual drug.
Pot is supposedly the largest source of Mexican gang income anyway, although yes, meth and others are established and rising.
There's also the gun issue. That might get dangerous on this board, I don't know. I have no problem with some guns, I used to shoot at a range with my dad when I was young. But there definitely needs to be more oversight and restrictions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 12:49 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,092,812 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
Well, this is the problem. Your stories are anecdotal. To deny that drugs have the ability to have very negative consequences on society is ignoring facts. You are referring to upper-middle class areas. If a child does get addicted, the consequences are often not as severe and it is easier to find ways out of it. Also, I do know some upper-middle class people who have gone whacko from drugs. Take enough hard stuff and it fries your brain, "makes" you do bad things. Harsh crack sentencing was actually passed in part with support from the black community because of the harm it was doing.
Overall, I support reforming the criminal drug system. This is already slowly happening, with specific drug courts. Drugs should be treated as a public health problem, not just a criminal problem. Marijuana, I have little problem with ending the prohibition. For a kid its already often easier to get than alcohol, anyway.
For other drugs, tread carefully. THe harsh prison sentences may not be the sole tool that we should rely on, but a sudden legalization of all drugs.. well... why exactly would you need a prescription for crack? Or should crack be legalized for casual use? It's definitely not a casual drug.
Pot is supposedly the largest source of Mexican gang income anyway, although yes, meth and others are established and rising.
There's also the gun issue. That might get dangerous on this board, I don't know. I have no problem with some guns, I used to shoot at a range with my dad when I was young. But there definitely needs to be more oversight and restrictions.
Not prescriptions...but instead of locking and throwing away the key on a person with crack...treatment? No prison sentence (unless he/she did something to harm another while high). No record (again unless theft, murder, rape, child neglect, vandalism, etc. occurred). Just treatment.
Again, it's goes back to personal responsibility. With freedom comes responsibility.

Yes, it was anecdotal. But it shows that it can be casual. I barely even drink beer now (twice a week I'll have a beer with dinner or wine). I'm def. not denying that they have the ability to morph your brain. But treatment is better than prison.

If we regulate drugs like any other import/export maybe there would be some safety standards and decreased crime (safety in the sense of not bad meth or what have you).

I know that there would have to be a change in distribution too. I haven't thought that part out. Would it private and highly regulated? State operated? I don't know...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 01:32 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,689,086 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Yes, it was anecdotal. But it shows that it can be casual. I barely even drink beer now (twice a week I'll have a beer with dinner or wine). I'm def. not denying that they have the ability to morph your brain. But treatment is better than prison.
We probably largely agree, but careful on wording. We both agree: less prison, more treatment and prevention.
But anecdotes don't really show that. I'm sure I can find a woman that was against suffrage, a black person that was for segregation, etc... Your anectodes just showed that drug problems aren't as large if you have access to resources, and that legalization that is not done very carefully can unfairly hit the those without them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2009, 01:47 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,092,812 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
We probably largely agree, but careful on wording. We both agree: less prison, more treatment and prevention.
But anecdotes don't really show that. I'm sure I can find a woman that was against suffrage, a black person that was for segregation, etc... Your anectodes just showed that drug problems aren't as large if you have access to resources, and that legalization that is not done very carefully can unfairly hit the those without them.
Yeah I can agree with those statements.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top