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Old 04-03-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,897,766 times
Reputation: 226

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Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
Here's a good suggestion:

Stop trying to lump ILLEGAL aliens/ILLEGAL migrants/ILLEGAL immigrants into the same group with LEGAL immigrants. (notice the use of the words ILLEGAL and LEGAL)

a) ILLEGAL alien/ILLEGAL migrant/ILLEGAL immigrant: someone who entered the US illegally or overstayed his/her visa.
b) Immigrant/LEGAL immigrant: someone who applied for a worker's permit, earns it legally and became an American citizen.

And before someone mentions it, no, an ILLEGAL alien's social status, race, ethnicity, nationality, etc. will never justify entering the US illegally or overstaying his/her visa.

ILLEGAL: bad
LEGAL: good

In addition, the person who committed that crime was a legal immigrant who did such for reasons not known as of now.
Here's a question for you: how the hell did you turn an outpouring of grief and sympathy over this event into this sh--?
Why the hell are you even bringing that up?
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,581,916 times
Reputation: 267
Firstly, this post: http://www.city-data.com/forum/8178647-post11.html was a separate thread which was titled Legal Immigrants massacred in citizenship class

Secondly, harborlady, the OP of the post above, claimed that some of us were hateful for some reason(s) but refused to elaborate. Who do you think she was referring to?

I only responded and later this thread and harborlady's thread were merged for some reason.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,897,766 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
Firstly, this post: http://www.city-data.com/forum/8178647-post11.html was a separate thread which was titled Legal Immigrants massacred in citizenship class

Secondly, harborlady, the OP, claimed that some of us were hateful for some reason(s). Who do you think she was referring to?

I only responded and later this thread and harborlady's thread were merged for some reason.
What are you upset about? That she said "legal immigrants" were massacred?
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:25 PM
LML
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,109 posts, read 7,917,493 times
Reputation: 5152
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,581,916 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
What are you upset about? That she said "legal immigrants" were massacred?
Her post seemed to imply that some people were hateful for some insignificant reason(s).

Below is what she posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
I'd just like to remind you all that your words do travel in unexpected ways in a world that is very on edge.
If you could only stick to the issues and not be so hateful.
None of the regular posters here were being hateful towards legal immigrants but illegal aliens. I certainly feel justified in responding to her post.



OTH, a moderator needs to separate harborlady's post and this thread. There was no need to merge this thread and harborlady's thread together.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:40 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,327 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
There are all kinds of places that I cannot go, where my movement is restricted. I cannot walk into the Pentagon any time I choose. I cannot walk into the River Oaks Country Club because I am not a member. I cannot walk into a movie theater and sit down to watch the show if I did not buy a ticket. To imply that anyone should be able to go anywhere they want anytime they choose is simply not in line with reality.



Why not? Unless my memory fails me, you just got done saying there should not be restriction of movement. Now you are saying there should be some restriction on movement. Which is it?



It would also be nice if it never snowed more than half a foot, our teeth brushed themselves and we did not have to pay any income taxes. Ready to grow up? This nirvana like scenario does not exist and it never has existed. This is simply being used as cover for individuals such as yourself to advance your agenda.



This statement reflects a lack of comprehension of the costs of this. When did it become out job to educate the entire world? Instead of criticizing these people's home countries for failing to educate them, you act as if the US is the bad guy. Our school system is in serious need of repair in parts of the country and you are suggesting we should be responsible for educating millions more?




I suspect that you are very young. As people grow up, their views often change. Yours will probably not.

I am not wasting anymore time trying to reason with your Cosmic Convergence of the Global Tribal Village mindset. However, I will make two quick points.

1. Your posts sound alot like Travelin Fella's.

2. Quite frankly, you are Exhibit A as to why we should not allow unlimited immigration. You seem to have no understanding of the simple fact that neither you nor your mother had some God given right to become citizens of the US. Instead of expressing any gratitude or appreciation for the opportunities that were given to you when the people of the US as represented by our government gave you permission to come here, you have done nothing but criticize the place. If you are truly that appalled by life in the US and our 'unenlightened' immigration laws, it probably would not be too difficult for you to return to your mother's homeland. Who knows? Maybe you would like their immigration policy better.
Clearly, you don't understand the word "Ideally". Hence you would not point out the obvious.

Restrictive movement typically refers to migration. Not to individuals in "restricted" zones. It's assinine, simplistic, and really ignorant to even imply that people advocating that. A house is different than a nation. People not directly affecting my standard of living is clearly different than the illegals down the street which have less bearing than the CEOs of GM to our livelyhood.

Look, I'm critical of all nations. Not just the US. There are things wrong in other nations...but seeing how this one pertinent to the US, I think I'll stick to the point. It's our rights, no our duty, as people to speak up when things are wrong. Hey, guess what? Our immigration policies are flawed.
I also think that there are many good things about the US. Obiviously freedom of expression. By me posting I'm expressing my gratitude. Sorry if I'm not blindly nationalistic, like some. Or if I feel that there are some injustices.

Concerning education...actaully not it really does not "lack comprehension of cost". We have a ridiculous amount that is wasted. We have a cheap talent pool (college students) that actually want to go into this sort of thing (TeachforAmerica, Peace Corps, VISTA, AmeriCorps...). Plus you can just as easily set up work based aid. So, there are alternatives to cut down costs. We already educate them...many illegals go to public schools (adult education). Their kids go to public schools. Again, allowing those that live within our borders a chance will DECREASE the amount paid in welfare. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp that illegals and poor citizens use the same services? There is a lot of overlap.

Another thing, concerning your little exhibit A comment, my brother went to West Point, my grandfather helped design parachutes in WWII, my uncle fought in Korea...they all share my ideals. I tried to convince my mom to let go to the army. She said that she understands that I love this nation that I would fight (I was 18, thinking about West Point or ROTC), but it would have led my family in pins and needles wondering if I was okay. They didn't want to go through another military experience. I did VERY well on the ASVAB. Almost all 90th percentiles (one 70 percentile). So do little research, a little background check goes a long way. I sent donations to support our troops. This is even despite me not liking the war AT ALL! I don't attend anti-war rallies because I'm grateful for our troops (I think it's insensitive to the troops, they have no choice). Again, you don't know me.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:43 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,327 times
Reputation: 822
Another thing...yeah I'm young. Yet I've actually seen and been apart of the third world. "Tribal Village" headset is simply saying that all people need to be treated equal. I think that's something that should not be lost with age.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:58 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Another thing...yeah I'm young. Yet I've actually seen and been apart of the third world. "Tribal Village" headset is simply saying that all people need to be treated equal. I think that's something that should not be lost with age.
OK, your age is a factor....I can appreciate that, and there's nothing wrong with being a bit idealistic....(no one should start off in life cynical)..but your idealism is still a long way from 'real world reality', and I say this as a one-time idealist myself. The things I THOUGHT, I still think...it's just that a little practicality has entered the equation.

I agree with you that IN THEORY (and ideally),"All People Should be Treated Equally"...that, in itself, is a perfectly fine sentiment, and is actually pretty close to a religious principle...and I certainly buy it.

The problem, though, is that people AREN'T treated equally, nor do they treat EACH OTHER equally.....and some people are mistreated HERE, and others are mistreated ELSEWHERE....and some of the WORST abusers of their fellow man were, themselves, victims of abuse by OTHERS at one time.

Much of what I'm alluding to here is culture. Some people come from places, and environments, where the WHOLE SYSTEM 'beats down' the 'little guy', and much of the human race lives and endures daily under conditions we here in the 'States' would consider intolerable.

So while you may FEEL that all folks should be treated equally, and while I may feel likewise...the fact is, that many OTHER people disagree with us...and THEY don't treat people equally at ALL, nor do they feel they SHOULD.

That's the REAL world, and it's just not possible for you and I to ever "make" it go away. I happen to believe the USA and its people DO treat 'others' pretty decently..but whether you agree or not, we can't clean up the whole world...NOR take care of all its problems and injustices..
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:02 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Clearly, you don't understand the word "Ideally". Hence you would not point out the obvious.

Restrictive movement typically refers to migration. Not to individuals in "restricted" zones. It's assinine, simplistic, and really ignorant to even imply that people advocating that. A house is different than a nation. People not directly affecting my standard of living is clearly different than the illegals down the street which have less bearing than the CEOs of GM to our livelyhood.

Look, I'm critical of all nations. Not just the US. There are things wrong in other nations...but seeing how this one pertinent to the US, I think I'll stick to the point. It's our rights, no our duty, as people to speak up when things are wrong. Hey, guess what? Our immigration policies are flawed.
I also think that there are many good things about the US. Obiviously freedom of expression. By me posting I'm expressing my gratitude. Sorry if I'm not blindly nationalistic, like some. Or if I feel that there are some injustices.

Concerning education...actaully not it really does not "lack comprehension of cost". We have a ridiculous amount that is wasted. We have a cheap talent pool (college students) that actually want to go into this sort of thing (TeachforAmerica, Peace Corps, VISTA, AmeriCorps...). Plus you can just as easily set up work based aid. So, there are alternatives to cut down costs. We already educate them...many illegals go to public schools (adult education). Their kids go to public schools. Again, allowing those that live within our borders a chance will DECREASE the amount paid in welfare. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp that illegals and poor citizens use the same services? There is a lot of overlap.

Another thing, concerning your little exhibit A comment, my brother went to West Point, my grandfather helped design parachutes in WWII, my uncle fought in Korea...they all share my ideals. I tried to convince my mom to let go to the army. She said that she understands that I love this nation that I would fight (I was 18, thinking about West Point or ROTC), but it would have led my family in pins and needles wondering if I was okay. They didn't want to go through another military experience. I did VERY well on the ASVAB. Almost all 90th percentiles (one 70 percentile). So do little research, a little background check goes a long way. I sent donations to support our troops. This is even despite me not liking the war AT ALL! I don't attend anti-war rallies because I'm grateful for our troops (I think it's insensitive to the troops, they have no choice). Again, you don't know me.
I have a feeling you thought it was great that the Native Americans lost their lands and were put on reservations. That was a good example of what happens to people who have no border control or immigration laws.

You may have been raised on John Lennon songs or something but the reality is there's always been countries and countries always have some kind of border.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:04 PM
 
2,689 posts, read 3,006,146 times
Reputation: 977
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Here's a question for you: how the hell did you turn an outpouring of grief and sympathy over this event into this sh--?
Why the hell are you even bringing that up?
Do you really think its unrelated to the immigration issue in any way?

Yes we should be feeling grief and sympathy, but we should also be figuring out why it happened and how to prevent it from happening again.

Or should we just feel bad about it until cable news stops covering it and then forget about it?
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