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View Poll Results: Have you ever had your job taken by an illegal immigrant
yes 15 38.46%
No 24 61.54%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-07-2009, 07:30 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,088,941 times
Reputation: 2244

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
It is not hard to figure out. When a cop car passes and all the workers disappear to the other side of the roof and peak over the top every time, it is kind of plain to see.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:09 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,572 posts, read 18,004,772 times
Reputation: 5929
The answer to the POLL in my case would be NO.

They would never have the background and experience of my trade which takes years to learn.

My last wage was $48.00 per hr before I retired. NO...never had to worry about it.

Steve
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:15 AM
 
30 posts, read 56,685 times
Reputation: 28
I haven't and never will.
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:14 PM
 
946 posts, read 2,159,499 times
Reputation: 481
I find these types of questions let people off the hook too easily. Much easier to blame that illegal immigrant than accept that you don't have the skills or the smarts. For decades immigrants, legal and not, picked apples and other crops--I didn't see anybody else out there, with the exception of some real poor people like my dad.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,913,834 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by teach1234 View Post
I find these types of questions let people off the hook too easily. Much easier to blame that illegal immigrant than accept that you don't have the skills or the smarts. For decades immigrants, legal and not, picked apples and other crops--I didn't see anybody else out there, with the exception of some real poor people like my dad.
And I find posts like this one to be filled with pro-illegal rhetoric.
no skills? No smarts? We are too lazy? And no facts.
I grew up on a dairy farm worked 7 days a week 365 a year. We worked long hours for little pay. And no we never used migrant help.
I did drywall with my brother. Once again worked long hours and did a quality job. A job we were proud to put our name on and back it with a warranty. We also paid our taxes, had insurance and a licence. Unfortunately our competition were cheap low ballers who would disappear if the work slowed. So much for that warranty. They did not pay all of their taxes if any. Did not have insurance and the builder did not pass the savings on to the consumer.
But hey if you tell the same lies often enough you might even start to believe them. We can't live without illegal labor? I know quite a few who do quite well without it. My house was built without illegal labor. Bashing folks who have been put out of work so that a few greedy business men and some illegal immigrants can have a good day? Some people just bare no shame.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:09 PM
 
946 posts, read 2,159,499 times
Reputation: 481
Rhetoric, hmm.... that's what I got my degree in. I'm glad my education didn't go to waste. And looks like your learning was time well spent as well, since your writing displays a compensatory amount of anti-illegal rhetoric.

In trying to keep it short and simple I was not fair when I wrote lack of skill and smarts. That ignores many people who have lost jobs through no fault of their own. Unfortunately, most people are willing to blame someone else for society's problems--it's a normal response. In the world's history, there have been decent societies that descended to barbarity in part because their politicians were able to blame other ethnic groups for internal issues. Despite the problems with illegal immigration, these problems cannot be so severe we're willing to build walls to keep people out (we just tore one down 20 years ago in E. Germany)--there are even people willing to tolerate a police state on the border (on these immigration threads). This is scary stuff, far scarier than brown people trying to get across the border to the promised land.

Facts? Your story contains no more facts than my anecdotal story does. I grew up in the orchards of central Washington and there would have been no apples harvested without migrants. That's hard to back up with facts because nobody went around tallying up the composition of workers but talk to the people in that country and they'll tell you they had two types of applicants for pickers-- migrants and bums. They hired both, and when they could, they hired local guys like my dad. But there were very few white guys applying for these jobs, with the exception of the family that owned the orchard.

Bashing folks who have been put out of work? No, I am bashing folks who have lost their jobs and are blaming illegals to the exclusion of other causes. In my working experience, most illegal immigrants are not employed by a few greedy business owners (if they were, it sure would be easy to deport them), but by numerous small businesses struggling to survive. People mowing grass and shoveling gravel in 110 degree weather for minimum wage are my experiences working with illegals--and they were there because nobody else showed up to do the work. In this debate, it's impossible to find facts to bolster arguments--therefore, people argue from their experiences. My experiences are that I hired anyone who would show up and work; and that included darn few Americans.

Because of my experiences, I do have a pro-illegal immigrant bias. I've traveled to foreign countries and tried to find work, was ripped off on my paychecks, put up with abuse because I couldn't call the cops, etc. I did it for the adventure but it gave me insight into what people will do to better their families. There are downsides to illegal immigration, but these problems do not warrant the hype and emotion that are being whipped up in this debate. I believe that our current responses to this problem will cause us more damage than the problem in the first place.

"Bare" no shame--that is a nice rhetorical device, implying that my shame is naked. Be honest--was that intentional, or do you mean "bear" as in to carry?
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,913,834 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by teach1234 View Post
Rhetoric, hmm.... that's what I got my degree in. I'm glad my education didn't go to waste. And looks like your learning was time well spent as well, since your writing displays a compensatory amount of anti-illegal rhetoric.

In trying to keep it short and simple I was not fair when I wrote lack of skill and smarts. That ignores many people who have lost jobs through no fault of their own. Unfortunately, most people are willing to blame someone else for society's problems--it's a normal response. In the world's history, there have been decent societies that descended to barbarity in part because their politicians were able to blame other ethnic groups for internal issues. Despite the problems with illegal immigration, these problems cannot be so severe we're willing to build walls to keep people out (we just tore one down 20 years ago in E. Germany)--there are even people willing to tolerate a police state on the border (on these immigration threads). This is scary stuff, far scarier than brown people trying to get across the border to the promised land.

Facts? Your story contains no more facts than my anecdotal story does. I grew up in the orchards of central Washington and there would have been no apples harvested without migrants. That's hard to back up with facts because nobody went around tallying up the composition of workers but talk to the people in that country and they'll tell you they had two types of applicants for pickers-- migrants and bums. They hired both, and when they could, they hired local guys like my dad. But there were very few white guys applying for these jobs, with the exception of the family that owned the orchard.

Bashing folks who have been put out of work? No, I am bashing folks who have lost their jobs and are blaming illegals to the exclusion of other causes. In my working experience, most illegal immigrants are not employed by a few greedy business owners (if they were, it sure would be easy to deport them), but by numerous small businesses struggling to survive. People mowing grass and shoveling gravel in 110 degree weather for minimum wage are my experiences working with illegals--and they were there because nobody else showed up to do the work. In this debate, it's impossible to find facts to bolster arguments--therefore, people argue from their experiences. My experiences are that I hired anyone who would show up and work; and that included darn few Americans.

Because of my experiences, I do have a pro-illegal immigrant bias. I've traveled to foreign countries and tried to find work, was ripped off on my paychecks, put up with abuse because I couldn't call the cops, etc. I did it for the adventure but it gave me insight into what people will do to better their families. There are downsides to illegal immigration, but these problems do not warrant the hype and emotion that are being whipped up in this debate. I believe that our current responses to this problem will cause us more damage than the problem in the first place.

"Bare" no shame--that is a nice rhetorical device, implying that my shame is naked. Be honest--was that intentional, or do you mean "bear" as in to carry?
What I will be honest about is the (Fact) that no illegal has a right to be here. (Fact) 100% of all illegals are in fact criminals. ( Fact) 100% of all employers of illegals are also criminals. (Fact) No illegal is entitled to employment in this country. These are facts. Not rhetoric just simple facts.
I understand that many farms rely upon a migrant work force. I also understand that inspite of the rhetoric most employers do not pass on any real cost savings to their consumers.
To many, illegal immigration is a harmless crime. Mostly because they themselves have not been harmed. One can claim the same about most crimes. For example I have never been raped, robbed, stabbed or hit by a drunk driver. This does not mean that there are no victims and no one else has been harmed.
The construction industry is a prime example of good hard working americans being (forced) from their trades. They are unable to compete against illegal labor. They have to pay their taxes, insurances and if they warranty their work use acceptable materials. Illegals have no such handicaps. They simply move on to the next town. There are always greedy contractors willing to hire cheap labor.
Some would blame the business man for all the above. I would agree that they own a large share of the blame. But then again so do those who are willing to not only accept these practices but turn a blind eye to what it does to fellow americans. But I do blame illegals for the lion share. After all it is they who broke our laws of entry, commit fraud, tax evasion, ID theft and many more crimes. They are the ones who decided to live outside of the law. The only thing that they are actually entitled to is prosecution for their crimes.
I also travel mostly to asia with my wife who is a Thai national. Thailand allowed too many illegal Burmese to stay. The once hard working cheap labor has now become a handicap for Thai business. They figured out that once they dominated a sector of the work force that they could hold employers hostage and often too.
We don't need illegal labor in this country and never have. WE may need migrant workers but not illegals. You know the ones who cross the border without even trying to get a visa? Maybe there is a reason they would rather avoid back ground checks? Pay more to a mule to smuggle them than a visa would cost. Illegals like most criminals just don't feel that laws should apply to them. That is, in case the law is their favor.
As for me I'll continue reporting them and their employers as I find them. I feel no shame in this. I would feel ashamed if I cost a good man his living because I was too cheap to pay the going rate. Many construction workers have lost their living for this very reason. There is no valid argument to hire an illegal when there are licenced contractors who do the same work. There is no way to argue that legal labor is on a level playing field with illegal labor. The taxes alone give illegals an unfair advantage. Add in the cost of insurance and superior materials and the game is over. The big difference is most contractors can't just pick up and move to another town, change names and start over. Illegals can and do.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:51 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,997 times
Reputation: 13
Hi All,

The influx of undocumented workers has gotten in my way and cost me in my earning potential. Let me explain:

I come from a very poor background, my family is poor, so were my mother and father. We come from the deep South and I've done everything from picking tobacco to working in the textile mills.

However, once the flood of undocumented workers arrived our jobs started to disappear very quickly. I can see how folks, specially the working poor - like me - could start to harbor very nasty feelings toward undocumented workers that happen to be mostly Latino.

Heck, travel all up and down the Southern states and it is inescapable ==> or jobs have largely been taken over by Latino undocumented workers, mainly Mexican nationals !!!

This circumstance is visible with most of the textile mills, factories, and the construction trades. It's not so much that I'm angry at the undocumented workers and the business owners that hire the illegals, but I'm very angry at our government that let things get so out of hand.

Many of us here in the deep South would love to have a job that pays $15.00 per hour, but those jobs have been given to the illegals.

I think the way to start solving this problem is to jail all the business owners that hire the illegal workers.

So, the next time I hear that illegal workers don't take jobs from anybody, I'm going to say: YES THEY DO !!!
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:53 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,141,591 times
Reputation: 453
Since knowing how to speak comprehensible English is a requirement for legal citizenship, I would bet a true indicator defining legality would be one simple question. Where're you from? Most faces/eyes just glaze over when asked. There are far too many illegal aliens taking American jobs, period.

Oh, and I voted yes.

Last edited by getout; 04-12-2010 at 11:55 PM.. Reason: added my vote response
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Old 04-13-2010, 04:31 AM
 
Location: CA
258 posts, read 380,070 times
Reputation: 129
The type of jobs they do are not comparable to anyone in this country who has a decent education.
If someone loses a job to someone from another country who speaks English as a second language .. that's their fault for not educating themselves properly.
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