U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-06-2011, 01:24 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
Sorry, should have been clearer: I was agreeing that those who overstay their visa should be deported. However, we can't treat those who enter our country illegally in the same manner.
I think the feds could easily figure out who entered our country legally or illegally. Those who came on any type of visa would still have this as proof - even if expired. An illegal would not have documents to prove his rightful entry. It's not rocket science here.
If they got here one at a time, then they can leave here one at a time.
Somebody has to ask...and set up a procedure to do it. And then you have to validate that the papers provided are in fact real.

One of the problems with illegal entry is that it is a criminal offense. And that kicks off all the rules about criminal procedures. And providing the illegal with a lawyer which is not otherwise required. Now you got a thing going that can run weeks or months and cost thousands of dollars.

So one ignores the issue. Here illegal out you go. That way it takes a few hours most of the time.

Always watch out for the "all you got to do is" stuff. Generally does not work that way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-06-2011, 01:32 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,097,724 times
Reputation: 2199
I think we need a separate system or body of government (NOT DHS) to catch people who over stay VISA's.

It needs to be global with every country involve that issues visas at American Consulates.

If they don't want to participate we won't issue those country's visa's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2011, 01:42 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
I think we need a separate system or body of government (NOT DHS) to catch people who over stay VISA's.

It needs to be global with every country involve that issues visas at American Consulates.

If they don't want to participate we won't issue those country's visa's.
Visas for the US are issued by the US. Not by foreign governments.

If you don't issue visas you don't get visitors which causes all sorts of problems with commerce and tourism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,097,724 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Visas for the US are issued by the US. Not by foreign governments.

If you don't issue visas you don't get visitors which causes all sorts of problems with commerce and tourism.
I agree but we need a new system to track visa overstays & deport them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2011, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
2,868 posts, read 4,040,896 times
Reputation: 5229
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Illegal Entry in the US is a crime. That has been a given since this thread started if you bothered to read it.

Illegal Presence in the US is not.
Olecapt, I owe you an apology. I thought you were "THE KING OF SPIN", sorry to say you're not worthy of that title. That title goes to none other than the U.S. government themselves, our lawmakers!

I honestly get it now. You're a criminal if you enter this country illegally, but once you make it in it's not a crime being here.

Anybody, anybody at all, think it's time to re-write a few laws? Problem is, is there anybody in government capable of writing common sense laws?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2011, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,237,724 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by makossa View Post
Olecapt, I owe you an apology. I thought you were "THE KING OF SPIN", sorry to say you're not worthy of that title. That title goes to none other than the U.S. government themselves, our lawmakers!

I honestly get it now. You're a criminal if you enter this country illegally, but once you make it in it's not a crime being here.

Anybody, anybody at all, think it's time to re-write a few laws? Problem is, is there anybody in government capable of writing common sense laws?
Our goverment does way to many dumb things. Especialy bout illegal aliens.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2011, 08:55 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by makossa View Post
Olecapt, I owe you an apology. I thought you were "THE KING OF SPIN", sorry to say you're not worthy of that title. That title goes to none other than the U.S. government themselves, our lawmakers!

I honestly get it now. You're a criminal if you enter this country illegally, but once you make it in it's not a crime being here.

Anybody, anybody at all, think it's time to re-write a few laws? Problem is, is there anybody in government capable of writing common sense laws?
Again I think you miss the point. You really can't rewrite the laws. Or at the least you will have to start with the Constitution. In our form of government there are a set of constraints and procedures that must be followed in a criminal matter.

If you were to convert illegal presence into a criminal offense you would likely simply bring the process to a halt. It is much more difficult to pursue a criminal matter than a civil administrative procedure.

try it this way...If we treated illegal presence as criminal the number of people deported would likely go down by a factor of ten or more.

Is that your intent?

Note that there are a whole lot of other reasons why you don't want illegal presence to be a crime. But the procedural ones alone should convince you.

And note that if you make it past ten years illegal entry ceases to be a crime...or at least no longer prosecutable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2011, 09:03 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I am not aware that working for cash is a crime.

Using a false SS # may be. But the aggravated ID theft was thrown out by the USSC.
Using a stolen or fraudulent social security number is actually a felony crime.

Working for cash and failing to report it, failing to pay social security taxes and so on is tax evasion at the very least.

Maybe instead of ICE, we should have the IRS go after them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2011, 09:05 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
We don't really need new laws, all it would take is to enforce the laws we currently have.

There is no law that says the food stamp office couldn't call border patrol when someone who isn't a citizen comes looking for food stamps. The irony is that illegals aren't hiding, they aren't staying in the shadows. They've become very bold and blatant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Using a stolen or fraudulent social security number is actually a felony crime.

Working for cash and failing to report it, failing to pay social security taxes and so on is tax evasion at the very least.

Maybe instead of ICE, we should have the IRS go after them.
Cites? Particularly using a made up SS # is a felony?

Why do you guys always agree by the backdoor. What you are of course saying is that working for cash is legal...even for an illegal alien .

Failure to report income is illegal and could be a crime. I believe however it is virtually always handled as a civil offense. You have a cite of a different protocol?

For the IRS to go after someone practically requires some reasonable amount of taxes due. Do you believe most illegals make enough to be worth the cost?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top