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Old 02-20-2010, 01:36 PM
 
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I haven't read all through this thread, but common sense terms make someone who has broken a law a criminal. In legal terms, we could question that. I don't think most of us who are fighting against illegal immigration really care about what is used to refer to illegal immigrants. It's like when people cry about the use of the term "illegal immigrant," if it makes them feel better for me to use "undocumented immigrant," then I can. So, this seems like it really isn't important in the overal picture. We know that they are breaking a very fundamental and established law.
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:46 AM
 
1 posts, read 841 times
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OJ Simpson was not convicted in his criminal murder trial but was convicted in the civil trial. Regardless of semantics, does that make you feel any better about him?
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:41 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,312,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tador1981 View Post
There is a difference between a civil penalty and a civil law read section b of the code carefully, and you will see that the penalty is a civil penalty the act is still a criminal act. This is merely legal tolerance, not a definition of civil law.
That's how I read title 8 also. I've heard many say that illegal aliens have ONLY violated civil laws. Not being a lawyer, I'm really not sure about this. It would seem (IMO) that illegal aliens are in violation (present tense, as opposed to a one time past tense event) of Federal Law (or Regulations) that carry criminal and/or civil penalties that maybe imposed.

Lets read the US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 8, Chapter 12, Sub-chapter 2, part 8, section 1325 to see exactly what it says:

§ 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

(c) Marriage fraud Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

----------------------------------------------------

Well, here is what I've learned from reading it:

1. Those that improperly enter the country are defined as aliens, not immigrants. So the term "immigrant" should not be used to define someone that has crossed the border illegally. They are ALIENS. The word ALIEN is offensive to many, right? But words have meanings and I see no reason to call an alien an immigrant. Why do some refer to aliens as "undocumented immigrants"? Isn't that lying? Would the term "undocumented alien" or "Improper Entry Alien" be more appropriate? Does "improper" mean illegal? Is this where the term "Illegal Alien" comes from? It would seem that the term "Illegal Alien" best defines what the Regulations are trying to describe and prohibit.

2. Aliens may be fined or imprisoned, or both, for being in violation of the Federal Regulations. That seems pretty straight forward to me...

3. The Regulations are referred to as being Federal, not Civil. At least that's where these regulations are found, under Federal Regulations. I don't see where the Federal Regulations are defined as being Civil Laws. Are Federal Regulations ever called Civil laws within the Regulations? If so, where can I find it? If not, why do some say that illegal aliens are ONLY in violation of civil law?

4. Imposed penalties may be civil or criminal. Some civil penalties are said to be "in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed." This leads me to believe that civil penalties, as well as criminal penalties, may be imposed for violating the Federal Regulations. However, the Regulations are still Federal, not civil or criminal laws, right? And these Federal Regulations can carry BOTH civil and criminal penalties.

Does this make any sense?

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 06-19-2010 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:44 AM
 
364 posts, read 184,272 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mance Lotter View Post
OJ Simpson was not convicted in his criminal murder trial but was convicted in the civil trial. Regardless of semantics, does that make you feel any better about him?
nope
oj was a fool
tha man had it all
an to wack his wife
was stupid on top of being a crime
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
4,636 posts, read 4,945,754 times
Reputation: 2736
Sneaky, invasive perma squatters ? is that any better ? They are tresspassing. They are sent back to country of origin, and told not to come back because they are breaking the law. If I waltzed into Mexico, and plunked myself down for a perma stay without having gone through the proper channels, I wouldn't get any sympathy. No reason why I should. I would have to return to the US and take my "lumps" from the "poverty, and corrupt U.S. government". That is..if I wasn't plunked down into a Mexican jail for a long time.
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,112,510 times
Reputation: 9486
while we are debating which term is correct to use, about 2000 have already skipped the border and come into the USA in the last 1/2hour.
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:34 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,312,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
while we are debating which term is correct to use, about 2000 have already skipped the border and come into the USA in the last 1/2hour.
I agree...it's also apparent that there is a concerted effort among illegal alien advocates to first change words and definitions so that it de-stigmatizes the breaking of immigration laws. This is usually the first step to camouflage the truth of any matter.

Here is an article that attempts to do just that:

The National Association of Hispanic Journalists (http://www.nahj.org/nahjnews/articles/2006/March/immigrationcoverage.shtml - broken link)

Journalism can be a very powerful tool!
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,197,803 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
It's illegal, just like when you drive over the speed limit and get a ticket for it. Does it make you a criminal, no.

And as discussed in the other thread I.D. theft got legislated from the bench by the Supreme Court. What other offence is perpetrated by illegal aliens that is criminal, that is representative enough that would entitle you to call them all criminals.
Tax Fraud.

Driving without DL or insurance
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Old 06-19-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,197,803 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
"
Quote:
undocumented immigrant." Illegal immigrant
is a term used to describe the immigration status of people who do not have the federal documentation to show they are legally entitled to work, visit or live here. People who are undocumented according to federal authorities do not have the proper visas to be in the United States legally
So be it....

There still is such thing called "Freedom of Speech". It's my right and I WILL use it!

Illegal Aliens think they're entitled to every right that was written during the slave era.
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:20 PM
 
1,650 posts, read 3,364,408 times
Reputation: 1121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
This is where you are wrong. Them being here alone is illegal and makes them criminals. I do not want them here period. I do not care if they are paying a million dollars in taxes, if they are here illegally then get out period. I do not care if they are on welfare, dying, have children, etc.... I want them all gone.
Me too. I want them all gone. I don't care what it takes. Deport them all and do it ASAP. I lived near the U.S.-Mexican border. I have seen the way the illegals can screw up an area. I have seen trash all over the place. My friends have had cars stolen, grills stolen, RV's stolen, bikes stolen, campers stolen. A high illegal population can turn an area into a real s#$% hole.

Of course illegals are criminals. They steal stuff from Americans for profit. They kill innocent Americans. They drive without a license. They don't buy car insurance, which is required by law in all 50 states. They don't pay taxes even though they leech off the system. They steal identities to get a job. They trespass on the property of an innocent rancher. They commit home invasions. They finance the drug cartels who are often human smugglers. The illegals pay the human smugglers thousands of dollars to sneak them over the border. The illegal then carries their drugs. I know this because two of my friends work for the border patrol.
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