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there were some great articles talking about how hard it is to fire bad teachers. it takes years. they are kept out of the classrooms, but are still paid 50k+!!!
thats a bigger problem to me!
see, we agree some more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Man that is everywhere and we wonder why our public schools are less than succesful. Here in PA the teachers Unions have a death grip on the school districts. Don't even talk about any form of job accountability.
there were some great articles talking about how hard it is to fire bad teachers. it takes years. they are kept out of the classrooms, but are still paid 50k+!!!
thats a bigger problem to me!
see, we agree some more.
Right now in my area once they make tenure it is nearly impossible to fire them.
Theres is hope for the world after all when 2 polar opposites like us can agree not once but twice in 10 minutes.
That's how prejudice and racism come about in a person. You should really try not to generalize like that, before you end up hating a people.
That is exactly my point! Because we don't know who is illegal or legal, I'll admit I as well as many other Americans generalize even though I know it isn't fair to do to the individual.
Now when I see a person from an African Country or Russia or Haiti or ANYWHERE else then South American/Mexico I am happy for them to be here. Especially the immigrants from Sudan who seem so darn happy and grateful to have this opportunity. I also know the chances of them being here illegally are slim. What gives Mexicans and South Americans the right over the millions of other people that would love to come to the USA?
Remember my countless posts about innocent people (of any actual race/ethnicity) who may look stereotypically 'Hispanic' being caught in the crossfire? It is starting to occur.
As ghastly this sounds: methinks the safest people will either be Nordic White or dark skinned Black folks since few racists (of any actual heritage) will mistake either of the above for Mestizo.
And this is what gets under my skin the most - the people here legally getting caught in the crossfire. It seems like there is more hostility towards anyone with Latin heritage these days regardless of their immigration status. As upset as some people are when it comes to illegal immigration, treating all Latinos like illegal immigrants is not acceptable. I don't think the people making these generalizations are doing anything to help the situation. If anything, they're making the problem worse. It's going to spark violence and innocent people are going to get hurt.
Benicar, I saw your comments about how you are sometimes treated because of stereotypes surrounding Black people. I don't see how you can accept that as being okay. You might pass it off as human nature, but it doesn't make it okay. Why should you be held responsible for the actions of others just because they share the same skin color as you? You shouldn't be stereotyped. Nor should you have to worry about your children being treated differently (or possibly harmed) due to stereotypes. I know I'd be put in jail for my actions if I ever found out my daughter was harmed simply because she was caught speaking the language of her mother's native land (Spanish). Lucky for me, she's only 2 years old and can't even speak English that well yet.
Being angry with the illegal immigration situation in America is understandable. Just be sure you're not directing your anger at the people who are here legally. And if you don't know for sure, give that person the benefit of the doubt. If you feel overly outraged at any given moment, take it out on your congressman (or other representative) in a phone call, email, or letter. We can't just act uncivilized every time we're faced with rising tensions due to a situation that involves race.
And this is what gets under my skin the most - the people here legally getting caught in the crossfire. It seems like there is more hostility towards anyone with Latin heritage these days regardless of their immigration status. As upset as some people are when it comes to illegal immigration, treating all Latinos like illegal immigrants is not acceptable. I don't think the people making these generalizations are doing anything to help the situation. If anything, they're making the problem worse. It's going to spark violence and innocent people are going to get hurt.
Benicar, I saw your comments about how you are sometimes treated because of stereotypes surrounding Black people. I don't see how you can accept that as being okay. You might pass it off as human nature, but it doesn't make it okay. Why should you be held responsible for the actions of others just because they share the same skin color as you? You shouldn't be stereotyped. Nor should you have to worry about your children being treated differently (or possibly harmed) due to stereotypes. I know I'd be put in jail for my actions if I ever found out my daughter was harmed simply because she was caught speaking the language of her mother's native land (Spanish). Lucky for me, she's only 2 years old and can't even speak English that well yet.
Being angry with the illegal immigration situation in America is understandable. Just be sure you're not directing your anger at the people who are here legally. And if you don't know for sure, give that person the benefit of the doubt. If you feel overly outraged at any given moment, take it out on your congressman (or other representative) in a phone call, email, or letter. We can't just act uncivilized every time we're faced with rising tensions due to a situation that involves race.
No, I don’t condone prejudice. I simply understand ‘why’ some people prejudge others depending on their level of exposure. Some people have had little or no interaction with blacks, and base their opinions on the negative images the media loves to display, as well as the ignorant depictions of blacks in many so-called music videos. Of course, some people are simply bigots. I ignore and pity them.
Fortunately, I rarely have those experiences today. I should have more accurately stated that I used to often be prejudged. To my knowledge, my son has never experienced racism or prejudice. He’s somewhat of a chameleon.
I don't have a big dog in this fight, but, I might have a simple explanation on why most Americans tend to resent (and generally lump together) latino, illegal and spanish names. Pre-conditioning perhaps? "Pavlov's dog syndrome" over a period of just a few years? Doesn't make it right ,but, it does seem to fit the pattern here. People come up with a negative sterotype from prior generations, news papers, ect. ec.
You read my mind (Pavlov’s dogs). Prior to this invasion, there was nothing negative associated with Hispanics in the US. They were simply people who worked, raised families, paid taxes, etc. just as other U.S. citizens. Then, we began to see massive Hispanic illegal immigration, coupled with displaced U.S. workers, overburdened schools, hospitals, and social services, to name a few. Let’s not forget the arrogant “immigrant” marches demanding everything but the kitchen sink. Consequently, “Hispanics” gradually began to lose their ‘good’ reputation due to being linked with illegal immigration.
Illegal alien profiteers erroneously believed if they repeatedly linked Hispanic-Americans with Hispanic illegal aliens we would eventually embrace illegal aliens as simply being members of the Hispanic-American community. However, it backfired. Instead of eliciting positive responses as intended, they have inadvertently branded Hispanic-Americans as illegal aliens. Thus, like Pavlov’s dogs, we have become conditioned to respond to them as one. It’s unfair, but those who deliberately conflate legal with illegal are primarily responsible for the disdain felt by many U.S. citizens.
Our conditioning is further reinforced by groups such as La Raza, who herald Hispanic illegal aliens as being the same as Hispanic-Americans. Moreover, they refuse to even acknowledge them as being illegal. Rather, they use euphemisms such as undocumented, migrant, and immigrant to describe Hispanics who entered this country illegally, or overstayed visas; while demonizing all opposition as racists, xenophobes, nativists, and haters. Janet Murguia even proclaimed that no distinction should be made between Hispanic-Americans and Hispanic illegal aliens. According to her, there is no difference.
While this isn’t the quote in which she explicitly stated that illegal aliens and Hispanic-Americans are the same, I believe you can catch her drift.
Quote:
But, to the voices of hate…they are only “illegals,” a term deftly used as a code word to hide prejudice. These hard-working men and women are not separate from the Hispanic community. They’re part of its fabric. Many Latino families have U.S. citizens, legal residents, and undocumented under the same roof. And you can’t tell just by looking at us who is a citizen and who is not.
So if the undocumented are demonized as a threat to the American way of life...then, all Latinos are demonized.
National Council of La Raza: Viewpoints (http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/50213/ - broken link)
Many Hispanics oppose illegal immigration, but their voices are being dwarfed by thousands of vociferous Hispanic illegal aliens who dare to march in our streets under the auspices of pro-illegal organizations.
Right or wrong, Hispanic-Americans are now inextricably linked to Hispanic illegal aliens. This will be further reinforced as long as this issue remains unresolved, and as long as Hispanic-Americans allow themselves to be represented by Hispanic advocacy groups who consistently and intentionally link the two.
Last edited by Benicar; 05-13-2009 at 07:46 PM..
Reason: Grammatical error.
You read my mind (Pavlov’s dogs). Prior to this invasion, there was nothing negative associated with Hispanics in the US. They were simply people who worked, raised families, paid taxes, etc. just as other U.S. citizens. Then, we began to see massive Hispanic illegal immigration, coupled with displaced U.S. workers, overburdened schools, hospitals, and social services, to name a few. Let’s not forget the arrogant “immigrant†marches demanding everything but the kitchen sink. Consequently, “Hispanics†gradually began to lose their ‘good’ reputation due to being linked with illegal immigration.
Illegal alien profiteers erroneously believed if they repeatedly linked Hispanic-Americans with Hispanic illegal aliens we would eventually embrace illegal aliens as simply being members of the Hispanic-American community. However, it backfired. Instead of eliciting positive responses as intended, they have inadvertently branded Hispanic-Americans as illegal aliens. Thus, like Pavlov’s dogs, we have become conditioned to respond to them as one. It’s unfair, but those who deliberately conflate legal with illegal are primarily responsible for the disdain felt by many U.S. citizens.
Our conditioning is further reinforced by groups such as La Raza, who herald Hispanic illegal aliens as being the same as Hispanic-Americans. Moreover, they refuse to even acknowledge them as being illegal. Rather, they use euphemisms such as undocumented, migrant, and immigrant to describe Hispanics who entered this country illegally, or overstayed visas; while demonizing all opposition as racists, xenophobes, nativists, and haters. Janet Murguia even proclaimed that no distinction should be made between Hispanic-Americans and Hispanic illegal aliens. According to her, there is no difference.
While this isn’t the quote in which she explicitly stated that illegal aliens and Hispanic-Americans are the same, I believe you can catch her drift.
National Council of La Raza: Viewpoints (http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/50213/ - broken link)
Many Hispanics oppose illegal immigration, but their voices are being dwarfed by thousands of vociferous Hispanic illegal aliens who dare to march in our streets under the auspices of pro-illegal organizations.
Right or wrong, Hispanic-Americans are now inextricably linked to Hispanic illegal aliens. This will be further reinforced the longer this issue remains unresolved, and the longer Hispanic-Americans allow themselves to be represented by Hispanic advocacy groups who consistently and intentionally link the two.
You read my mind (Pavlov’s dogs). Prior to this invasion, there was nothing negative associated with Hispanics in the US. They were simply people who worked, raised families, paid taxes, etc. just as other U.S. citizens. Then, we began to see massive Hispanic illegal immigration, coupled with displaced U.S. workers, overburdened schools, hospitals, and social services, to name a few. Let’s not forget the arrogant “immigrant” marches demanding everything but the kitchen sink. Consequently, “Hispanics” gradually began to lose their ‘good’ reputation due to being linked with illegal immigration.
Illegal alien profiteers erroneously believed if they repeatedly linked Hispanic-Americans with Hispanic illegal aliens we would eventually embrace illegal aliens as simply being members of the Hispanic-American community. However, it backfired. Instead of eliciting positive responses as intended, they have inadvertently branded Hispanic-Americans as illegal aliens. Thus, like Pavlov’s dogs, we have become conditioned to respond to them as one. It’s unfair, but those who deliberately conflate legal with illegal are primarily responsible for the disdain felt by many U.S. citizens.
Our conditioning is further reinforced by groups such as La Raza, who herald Hispanic illegal aliens as being the same as Hispanic-Americans. Moreover, they refuse to even acknowledge them as being illegal. Rather, they use euphemisms such as undocumented, migrant, and immigrant to describe Hispanics who entered this country illegally, or overstayed visas; while demonizing all opposition as racists, xenophobes, nativists, and haters. Janet Murguia even proclaimed that no distinction should be made between Hispanic-Americans and Hispanic illegal aliens. According to her, there is no difference.
While this isn’t the quote in which she explicitly stated that illegal aliens and Hispanic-Americans are the same, I believe you can catch her drift.
National Council of La Raza: Viewpoints (http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/50213/ - broken link)
Many Hispanics oppose illegal immigration, but their voices are being dwarfed by thousands of vociferous Hispanic illegal aliens who dare to march in our streets under the auspices of pro-illegal organizations.
Right or wrong, Hispanic-Americans are now inextricably linked to Hispanic illegal aliens. This will be further reinforced as long as this issue remains unresolved, and as long as Hispanic-Americans allow themselves to be represented by Hispanic advocacy groups who consistently and intentionally link the two.
I too can understand 'why' people may view all Hispanics in a negative light because of the illegal immigration issue. But I can also understand 'why' many of those who are outraged by illegal immigration tend to be viewed in a negative light with some of the comments they make. Most of us can even understand 'why' illegal immigrants cross the border illegally. Understanding is not the same as condoning. But I think some people 'are' actually condoning in this case.
I simply cannot accept that it's okay for people to act on those feelings and treat all Hispanics negatively because they 'might' be illegal immigrants - just as I feel all who are opposed to illegal immigration should not be grouped in with racists and treated as such. That simply cannot be justified. I will never give people a free pass to base the way they treat others on prejudice or generalized assumptions. That is where bigotry and ignorance creeps into the equation.
Hispanics are not the issue. Illegal immigrants are the issue - the majority just happen to be Hispanic. No matter what group has tried to market them as being one in the same for whatever reason, the distinction has to be made. We are intelligent people and can think for ourselves, regardless of how some may attempt to condition our views and reinforce certain beliefs. That cannot be used as an excuse to group innocent people in with the guilty and treat them unfairly.
This is obviously a passionate issue for me because my wife was born in Mexico City (and is a US citizen). My daughter will grow up in a racially charged climate because of this issue. And I've heard plenty of ignorant and racially offensive comments made by people who may think they're talking about illegal immigrants, when in fact, they are actually making racist comments about Mexicans (and in some cases, Hispanics). Some of the stuff posted here is enough to make me cringe.
As much as I'd like to see the illegal immigration issue resolved, I think it's equally important to have people act a bit more civilized and dignified until the issue is addressed. I'd like to think that the true character of our society has made significant progress when it comes to racial prejudice. Yet, when you see people who are not willing to make the distinction between legal and illegal and give people the benefit of the doubt when they don't know, it can be extremely disappointing. I really hope that prejudice is not allowed to destroy the progress that has been made over the last century because of this one issue. It's the responsibility of everyone to prevent that from happening - not just that of Hispanics.
I too can understand 'why' people may view all Hispanics in a negative light because of the illegal immigration issue. But I can also understand 'why' many of those who are outraged by illegal immigration tend to be viewed in a negative light with some of the comments they make. Most of us can even understand 'why' illegal immigrants cross the border illegally. Understanding is not the same as condoning. But I think some people 'are' actually condoning in this case.
I simply cannot accept that it's okay for people to act on those feelings and treat all Hispanics negatively because they 'might' be illegal immigrants - just as I feel all who are opposed to illegal immigration should not be grouped in with racists and treated as such. That simply cannot be justified. I will never give people a free pass to base the way they treat others on prejudice or generalized assumptions. That is where bigotry and ignorance creeps into the equation.
Hispanics are not the issue. Illegal immigrants are the issue - the majority just happen to be Hispanic. No matter what group has tried to market them as being one in the same for whatever reason, the distinction has to be made. We are intelligent people and can think for ourselves, regardless of how some may attempt to condition our views and reinforce certain beliefs. That cannot be used as an excuse to group innocent people in with the guilty and treat them unfairly.
This is obviously a passionate issue for me because my wife was born in Mexico City (and is a US citizen). My daughter will grow up in a racially charged climate because of this issue. And I've heard plenty of ignorant and racially offensive comments made by people who may think they're talking about illegal immigrants, when in fact, they are actually making racist comments about Mexicans (and in some cases, Hispanics). Some of the stuff posted here is enough to make me cringe.
As much as I'd like to see the illegal immigration issue resolved, I think it's equally important to have people act a bit more civilized and dignified until the issue is addressed. I'd like to think that the true character of our society has made significant progress when it comes to racial prejudice. Yet, when you see people who are not willing to make the distinction between legal and illegal and give people the benefit of the doubt when they don't know, it can be extremely disappointing. I really hope that prejudice is not allowed to destroy the progress that has been made over the last century because of this one issue. It's the responsibility of everyone to prevent that from happening - not just that of Hispanics.
And our 'government' is so damn blind that it is frightening.
As has been posted many times in the past:
E-Verify
Cancel birthright citizenship (if both parents are here illegally using DNA testing if needed to confirm) but grandfather in the existing Anchors, just that the parents still would need to leave the USA.
All government literature being in English only, especially for voting materials. The one exception would be info pertaining to public health/safety issues.
Make it a Felony to knowingly hire an illegal; note if said illegal did pass E-Verify using a fraudulent ID............the employer would not be liable in all fairness.
Checking immigration status on all people arrested for whatever and detaining same if 'dirty'.
Bottom line: make it a living hell for illegal aliens and their enablers.
And our 'government' is so damn blind that it is frightening.
As has been posted many times in the past:
E-Verify
Cancel birthright citizenship (if both parents are here illegally using DNA testing if needed to confirm) but grandfather in the existing Anchors, just that the parents still would need to leave the USA.
All government literature being in English only, especially for voting materials. The one exception would be info pertaining to public health/safety issues.
Make it a Felony to knowingly hire an illegal; note if said illegal did pass E-Verify using a fraudulent ID............the employer would not be liable in all fairness.
Checking immigration status on all people arrested for whatever and detaining same if 'dirty'.
Bottom line: make it a living hell for illegal aliens and their enablers.
Kudos to you for continuing to post possible solutions.
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Thats my point
