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Old 05-14-2009, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,582,898 times
Reputation: 267

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Agreed. No one should assume a person is illegal simply because they are Hispanic. Moreover, an entire group should never be stereotyped and treated unfairly due to shared ethnicity with those deserving of our disdain. As individuals, we should only be held accountable for our behavior, and treated accordingly. In a perfect world, there would be no discrimination, and mutual respect would abound. However, this is not a Utopia, and life is often unfair.

I can certainly appreciate your concern for your wife and daughter. I too have a child who is visibly Latino. Unfortunately, illegal alien peddlers have worked overtime to obfuscate this issue by conflating legal with illegal. They have created this monster; not the average U.S. citizen. Rather than dealing with this issue with honesty and integrity, and relating to illegal aliens as a distinct group of foreign invaders with no connection to Hispanic citizens, the profiteers have deliberately touted the Hispanic community as being a unified group comprised of both legal and illegal. These shysters don’t want us to perceive Hispanics as separate entities; so you can’t blame citizens for treating them as one. I am not attempting to justify anything. I am simply stating a fact.

The so-called “immigrant” marches are a prime example of their deception. Why not call it what it is -- “illegal alien” marches. Why not admit to being illegal alien advocates, rather than portraying an organization as being advocates for “immigrants?” What “immigrant” needs protection from ICE and deportation? What “immigrant” needs to worry about their family being separated due to workplace raids? What “immigrant” needs to become “Legalized Now!?”

Many on this forum have stated repeatedly that illegal aliens and their enablers/peddlers have done a grave disservice to Hispanic-Americans. They have sullied the reputation of decent citizens of this country to further their cheap labor/open borders agenda. It’s reprehensible. While ALL U.S. citizens are victims of this deplorable illegal alien invasion, Hispanic-Americans have been designated to be the sacrificial lamb. The blame lies squarely on the greedy corporate elite and special interest groups who orchestrated this appalling denigration of Hispanics by relegating them ALL to the status of illegal aliens -- solely for the sake of cheap labor and profits. They are deserving of your admonishment, not the regular posters on this forum. Yes we are angry; and our anger is justified.

I sincerely hope we can resolve this issue soon, and without bloodshed. However, anger and frustration are mounting, and people may begin to respond with violence. No, I do not condone violence, but we are dealing with human emotions. Citizens of this country are already stressed due to surging unemployment, foreclosures, and other aspects of our economic crisis. Many don’t know from one day to the next if they will have a job to support their families. Yet, we are supposed to be concerned about what’s best for illegal aliens. . . how we can better accommodate THEM?!!!

It is unfair for Hispanic-Americans to suffer due to illegal immigration. Likewise, it’s unfair for other U.S. citizens to have their lives ruined by illegal aliens who selfishly lower wages, steal identities, etc., etc., etc. It’s unfortunate, but the damage is done. Hispanics ARE associated with illegal aliens, just as ‘golden arches’ are associated with McDonald’s. I’m sorry, but it will require ridding our country of the scourge of illegal immigration before any real progress will be made. In the meantime, let’s all hope civility prevails.
Exactly (especially with what I've boldfaced)!
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Most hispanics I know are apolitical. It's not their job to "condemn" or comment on illegal aliens, or other such political matters. This gets especially ridiculous when we're talking about multi-generational hispanics whose families have been in the US for decades, or Puerto Ricans who are US citizens to begin with, and have no connection at all to any sort of "immigration" issues.

Fortunately, many of them also legally carry concealed firearms. If some idiot wants to start trouble with them - it'll be the last time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
I'm saying there are plenty - millions upon millions - of hispanics who have nothing to do with any sort of immigration debate. And attempts to foist one upon them aren't going to work. So relax, and keep the debate focused on illegal immigrants.

Full-fledged citizens are just as American as you are, and have to be treated as such. It's not very useful to talk in terms of "them" and "they," as though all 50 million hispanics in the US are one person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmuychingon View Post
Right on.
You have completely missed the point. The issue isn’t whether Hispanic-Americans SHOULD be treated differently, because I think we can all agree they shouldn’t. Nor is the fact that Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. The truth is, some Hispanics ARE being treated differently solely due to illegal immigration. Just because it hasn’t happened to you, doesn’t mean others aren’t being victimized. Furthermore, apathy and ignorance are catalysts for injustice.

Being defensive and making idle threats solves nothing. Nor will ignoring the problem, or assuming it will correct itself. It’s wrong, wrong, wrong for Hispanic citizens to be treated like pariahs; but sadly, it is happening to some. If Hispanics can march in support of illegal immigration, they can also march in opposition.

I truly do not understand why you would be willing to sit idly by and allow this to continue. Hispanic-Americans are citizens of this country, and they deserve to be treated as other U.S. citizens. Where do you think Blacks would be today if they had your mindset? MLK earned the respect and admiration of citizens worldwide due to his nonviolent posture. He, and those who fought in the Civil Rights Movement, did not simply accept inequities and say, “Hey, we are citizens of this country, and we shouldn’t be discriminated against. If you mess with us, we will shoot you.” C’mon, what would that have accomplished? No, they fought for change with dignity, humility, and tenacity; even amid the vilest forms of degradation.

You can remain on your sedentary high horse, and allow this to escalate; or fight it -- not armed with threats, guns, or machetes, but with the same arsenal successfully employed by those during the Civil Rights Movement. For starters, you can distance yourselves from illegal aliens by renouncing them, and fighting for the enforcement of our laws. One thing is certain; violence begets violence, not compassion and support.

Do you have any viable solutions?
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,890,891 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Most hispanics I know are apolitical. It's not their job to "condemn" or comment on illegal aliens, or other such political matters. This gets especially ridiculous when we're talking about multi-generational hispanics whose families have been in the US for decades, or Puerto Ricans who are US citizens to begin with, and have no connection at all to any sort of "immigration" issues.

Fortunately, many of them also legally carry concealed firearms. If some idiot wants to start trouble with them - it'll be the last time.
Sort of like it isn't the job of moderate muslems to condemn the actions of the radicals? But then complain when they are looked at in the same light..
The hispanic community as a whole has been pretty silent about illegal immigration. They become agitated when any mention of setting standards or enforcing our laws is mentioned.
I agree most legal hispanic immigrants are good citizens. Unfortunately 0 illegal immigrants regardless of race are good citizens. The fact remains that the vast majority of illegals are in fact hispanic. It is also fact they enjoy a great deal of support within the hispanic community. You can't have it both ways.
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:22 AM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,006,954 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
Exactly (especially with what I've boldfaced)!
Many have reiterated why we're seeing tensions rise and why they believe Hispanics are all bring painted with the same brush. We all know why and most understand the reasons for the outrage. This discussion is about how we, as a people, need to avoid getting sucked into the mob mentality and focus the outrage on the correct group of people, which is the illegal immigrants, not all Hispanics.

We all need to check ourselves and be mindful of how we're treating others through all of this. Think before you speak and recognize the fact that you might be saying or doing something to someone who isn't part of the problem. Be conscious of your reactions to certain things and realize that by blaming all Hispanics for this issue, you're giving in to prejudice and walking the line of bigotry and ignorance. And once that happens, civility is all but gone and hatred prevails. We can sit here all day and come up with reasons why we think legal Hispanic-American citizens are being treated unfairly, but that isn't the point. The more reasons we list, the more we're just accepting that it's 'okay'. We should be talking about ways we can avoid doing it ourselves.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,582,898 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
Many have reiterated why we're seeing tensions rise and why they believe Hispanics are all bring painted with the same brush. We all know why and most understand the reasons for the outrage. This discussion is about how we, as a people, need to avoid getting sucked into the mob mentality and focus the outrage on the correct group of people, which is the illegal immigrants, not all Hispanics.

We all need to check ourselves and be mindful of how we're treating others through all of this. Think before you speak and recognize the fact that you might be saying or doing something to someone who isn't part of the problem. Be conscious of your reactions to certain things and realize that by blaming all Hispanics for this issue, you're giving in to prejudice and walking the line of bigotry and ignorance. And once that happens, civility is all but gone and hatred prevails. We can sit here all day and come up with reasons why we think legal Hispanic-American citizens are being treated unfairly, but that isn't the point. The more reasons we list, the more we're just accepting that it's 'okay'. We should be talking about ways we can avoid doing it ourselves.
I agree although if you are assuming that I myself have made negative generalizing statements about Hispanics I can assure that such a thing is impossible--if anyone doubts this then please find a post(s) of mine which is negatively generalizing of Hispanics before claiming I have.
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Old 05-15-2009, 02:38 PM
 
5,767 posts, read 10,030,688 times
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Quote:
Sort of like it isn't the job of moderate muslems to condemn the actions of the radicals?
In many cases, it's more like saying it isn't the job of third-generation Christian or Druze Americans whose ancestors came from Lebanon sometime in the early 1900's to condemn Muslim radicals, seeing as how they aren't even Muslim.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:13 PM
 
Location: SXSW
640 posts, read 1,514,632 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The hispanic community as a whole has been pretty silent about illegal immigration.
As a Latina, I believe that there is a "silent minority" within the Hispanic population that is against illegal immigration. The ones who are most vocal are the ones that are pretty much culturally American, have married out, live in upper class areas, etc. Among some I see who I know are against illegal immigration, there is a bit of "willful blindness" going on. I think they want to ride the indifference train as long as they can, or at least they want to outwardly appear that way. I think they also do not want to seem like people who hate themselves. So they'd either not talk about it or just stew silently. I also think that some Hispanic people would feel like they would not be welcomed at certain functions that concern illegal immigration. I remember an anecdote of a guy who's third generation Mexican who showed up for a town hall meeting concerning the illegal immigration situation in his town. He left after he was told he was not welcome there.
I know FOR A FACT that if I made it known that I am against illegal immigration, it would create an uneasy tension with some of my Mexican-Am co-workers. Because to them, it is seen as self-hate. So it's stand by people who look like you (or somewhat kinda like you or speak spanish like you or have Latin last names like you) , or stand by your country. To many Hispanic people, sadly, you cannot have both. Among others, protesting in favor of illegal immigration has become somewhat trendy. I could make it analogous to how it became trendy to protest the Vietnam war in the Sixties. Due to their bigger numbers, Mexicans have a HUGE say in what is presented to the American populace. What THEY want is many times presented like what ALL Latinos want.

Last edited by simpleharmonicmotion; 05-15-2009 at 05:29 PM..
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,890,891 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueseas123 View Post
As a Latina, I believe that there is a "silent minority" within the Hispanic population that is against illegal immigration. The ones who are most vocal are the ones that are pretty much culturally American, have married out, live in upper class areas, etc. Among some I see who I know are against illegal immigration, there is a bit of "willful blindness" going on. I think they want to ride the indifference train as long as they can, or at least they want to outwardly appear that way. I think they also do not want to seem like people who hate themselves. So they'd either not talk about it or just stew silently. I also think that some Hispanic people would feel like they would not be welcomed at certain functions that concern illegal immigration. I remember an anecdote of a guy who's third generation Mexican who showed up for a town hall meeting concerning the illegal immigration situation in his town. He left after he was told he was not welcome there.
I know FOR A FACT that if I made it known that I am against illegal immigration, it would create an uneasy tension with some of my Mexican-Am co-workers. Because to them, it is seen as self-hate. So it's stand by people who look like you (or somewhat kinda like you or speak spanish like you or have Latin last names like you) , or stand by your country. To many Hispanic people, sadly, you cannot have both. Among others, protesting in favor of illegal immigration has become somewhat trendy. I could make it analogous to how it became trendy to protest the Vietnam war in the Sixties. Due to their bigger numbers, Mexicans have a HUGE say in what is presented to the American populace. What THEY want is many times presented like what ALL Latinos want.
Good post. Unfortuanately for legal hispanics the old saying: "Your either part of the solution or your part of the problem" seems to fit here. They have decided to either be active facilitators or passive facilitators. In my book that makes them part of the problem and they forfeit the moral high ground to complain about being singled out. Example if my cousin is a thief, I know he is a thief, and I let him live in my house. I really can't complain when my neighbors are less than friendly towards me.
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,633,862 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Good post. Unfortuanately for legal hispanics the old saying: "Your either part of the solution or your part of the problem" seems to fit here. They have decided to either be active facilitators or passive facilitators. In my book that makes them part of the problem and they forfeit the moral high ground to complain about being singled out. Example if my cousin is a thief, I know he is a thief, and I let him live in my house. I really can't complain when my neighbors are less than friendly towards me.
Flip side: some 'Hispanics' are indeed White (no obvious Black/Indian heritage), speak unaccented English and have 'Anglo' names; they would probably fly 'under the radar'-----------even if here illegally.

Needless to say: the American/legal immigrant Hispanic community needs to purge the illegals and their enablers out of their neighborhoods, etc.
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:00 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,793,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Flip side: some 'Hispanics' are indeed White (no obvious Black/Indian heritage), speak unaccented English and have 'Anglo' names; they would probably fly 'under the radar'-----------even if here illegally.

Needless to say: the American/legal immigrant Hispanic community needs to purge the illegals and their enablers out of their neighborhoods, etc.
What is unaccented English btw? Do you think an american born in minnesota has the same accent as one born in alabama?
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