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Old 05-09-2009, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028

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Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
I will take your word for it. I have already decided to relocate to Maryland in the very near future. Thanks for your personal input though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
I've visited Maryland. It's a gorgeous state. I think you'll like it there.
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Old 05-09-2009, 07:28 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,897,260 times
Reputation: 1094
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Former Cali girl is family, group hug indeed.
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Old 05-09-2009, 07:39 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,747,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Former Cali girl is family, group hug indeed.
Aaah, it's so nice to be loved.

Have a great rest of the weekend everybody!
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Old 05-09-2009, 07:44 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 6,828,995 times
Reputation: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, reading is fundamental; but comprehension is paramount. I’m still waiting for the information that debunks this article. Are illegal aliens receiving these services, or are they not?

I heard a noise in the background. Did you say you had a question?
.

It is self-debunking. The one statement I referenced says that the resolution, even if adopted, does not change the status quo.

Yes, PEOPLE do receive services, Many reasons for this: some philosophical (humanitarian), some practical (for example: do you want someone with the swine flu virus to stay away from the free clinic, just because they don't have a visa? Ask a health care type if you are unsure.)

But, couple of things:

If you understand cause and effect, you cannot blame illegals for problems related to either the decline of the Middle Class or the decline in public services.

One can be traced to our dropping of tariffs (1973) pursuant to the Tokyo Round of GATT. That is regarding Real Wages, the indicator of Middle Class well-being. Since 1973, they have had a steady downward slope.

As for public services, and the decline thereof, blame Reganomics, a 1980's pathology which said, "Government is the problem", and therefore proceeded to dry-up funding for same.
Very few, if any, illegals voted for Ronnie.

Bigotry is interesting to watch, as a process. This would seem to be a textbook example:

First find an enemy (for tax reasons) to blame. Then have one of your pimps (in this case, The Wisc State Journal), run an article insinuating the enemy (Dane Co, in this case) is "an illegal lover" (and for you Historians, note how well the former social pariahs fit into that phraseology). Then have someone online post said article to get the rabble going.

Only problem with this foolproof plan is the facts.... those pesky facts.

Like the ones I've just listed.

Last edited by Geechie North; 05-09-2009 at 08:09 PM..
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Old 05-09-2009, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
.

It is self-debunking. The one statement I referenced says that the resolution, even if adopted, does not change the status quo.

Yes, PEOPLE do receive services, Many reasons for this: some philosophical (humanitarian), some practical (for example: do you want someone with the swine flu virus to stay away from the free clinic, just because they don't have a visa? Ask a health care type if you are unsure.)

But, couple of things:

If you understand cause and effect, you cannot blame illegals for problems related to either the decline of the Middle Class or the decline in public services.

One can be traced to our dropping of tariffs (1973) pursuant to the Tokyo Round of GATT. That is regarding Real Wages, the indicator of Middle Class well-being. Since 1973, they have had a steady downward slope.

As for public services, and the decline thereof, blame Reganomics, a 1980's pathology which said, "Government is the problem", and therefore proceeded to dry-up funding for same.
Very few, if any, illegals voted for Ronnie.

Bigotry is interesting to watch, as a process. This would seem to be a textbook example:

First find an enemy (for tax reasons) to blame. Then have one of your pimps (in this case, The Wisc State Journal), run an article insinuating the enemy (Dane Co, in this case) is "an illegal lover" (and for you Historians, note how well the former social pariahs fit into that phraseology). Then have someone online post said article to get the rabble going.

Only problem with this foolproof plan is the facts.... those pesky facts.

Like the ones I've just listed.
*Sigh* I really don’t know why you are making such a monumental issue out of this. The facts are the facts, whether they were reported in the Wisconsin State Journal or any other publication.

The article states that there is a proposal which seeks to protect illegal aliens from deportation when accessing county services. You challenged me, and even attempted to insult my intelligence with your “reading is fundamental” comment simply because I posted this thread and expressed my opinion. Any proposal which seeks to “protect” illegal aliens from deportation is essentially aiding and abetting.

There is no need for a dissertation, and we are all well aware of tariffs, cause and effect, Reaganomics, etc. -- none of which are germane to your assertion that the information is suspect due to the source (Wisconsin State Journal). Now, I am asking you for the last time; is the article a compilation of fabrication, or is the county willfully ignoring the illegal status of people seeking tax-funded services? Nothing else, including your status quo argument, is valid. Unless you can produce irrefutable evidence that the county is not protecting illegal aliens, nothing has been debunked.

Last edited by Benicar; 05-09-2009 at 09:02 PM..
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:04 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 6,828,995 times
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Read the article again.

Otherwise, I fear it's not what you see, but what you want to see, but which is not there, that is the impasse.


"I don’t anticipate that we’re going to do anything different than what we’re doing right now," Sheriff Dave Mahoney said."

He is talking about reporting inmates status to the Feds.

Inmates, not those who seek county services.

And note that there is NO reference to keeping people from seeking tax-funded services.

No county in Wisconsin can do that, and comply with the state law.

Again, those pesky facts......

Last edited by Geechie North; 05-09-2009 at 09:15 PM..
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
Read the article again.

Otherwise, I fear it's not what you see, but what you want to see, but which is not there, that is the impasse.


"I donít anticipate that weíre going to do anything different than what weíre doing right now," Sheriff Dave Mahoney said."

He is talking about reporting inmates status to the Feds.

Inmates, not those who seek county services.

And note that there is NO reference to keeping people from seeking tax-funded services.

No county in Wisconsin can do that, and comply with the state law.

Again, those pesky facts......
Iím sorry, if you canít comprehend this, I certainly canít help you. This horse is dead.

Quote:
A proposal before the Dane County Board this week seeks to reassure the immigrant community that they can access county services without being deported.
Quote:
The resolution seeks to protect a personís immigration status as confidential and direct law enforcement officers not to disclose a personís immigration status unless required by law. But the sheriff, not the County Board, sets policy for the jail.
Quote:
"Even if the sheriff says heís not going to change his policy, we need to reaffirm the county policy for all other county departments," said Hendrick, who sponsored the resolution. "We donít want people not coming to the health department if theyíre sick."
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:55 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 6,828,995 times
Reputation: 791
No,

You mis-state the article.

In its TRUE form:

"But the resolution won’t likely change practices in the county jail or family court that stirred deportation fears in the first place.
The resolution seeks to protect a person’s immigration status as confidential and direct law enforcement officers not to disclose a person’s immigration status unless required by law. But the sheriff, not the County Board, sets policy for the jail."

Note the word, "But". And the phrase "For the jail."

The article, written as purposefully confusing as it is by the crack (think body part, not controlled substance) writers at the Wisc State Journal, only really speaks to those who get arrested- inmates.

And note that the resolution, "...seeks to protect a person’s immigration status as confidential and direct law enforcement officers not to disclose a person’s immigration status unless required by law."

It says nothing about those who are not inmates seeking services from the county/ It does NOT seek to establish a new policy.

How do we know that?

"Sup. John Hendrick, of Madison, who sponsored the resolution, also submitted a proposal that would create a task force to study the issue."


"Even if the sheriff says he’s not going to change his policy, we need to reaffirm the county policy for all other county departments," said Hendrick, who sponsored the resolution. "We don’t want people not coming to the health department if they’re sick."

Note "reaffirm" and "For all other county departments." as the proof positive for this.

Why do they do this?

Well, if someone was to die because of fearing to access county services, it would not only be a humanitarian tragedy, it could also open up the county to a lawsuit.

Pretty much sums the situation re: this big non-news story and illegal immigration up here.

In a time of economic depression, scapegoating people because they look or talk different is to be expected. As shown, the blame for our economy and the derth of public funding is ours, the resident population, and not the 12,000,000 (vs 300,000,000 overall) people who are here sans visa.

I note you are posting from Maryland. This shows in your lack of knowledge re: Wisconsin, just as my ignorance would be showcased were I to write with authority on some minor local matter in Baltimore or Hagerstown.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:18 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
No,

You mis-state the article.

In its TRUE form:

"But the resolution wonít likely change practices in the county jail or family court that stirred deportation fears in the first place.
The resolution seeks to protect a personís immigration status as confidential and direct law enforcement officers not to disclose a personís immigration status unless required by law. But the sheriff, not the County Board, sets policy for the jail."

Moderator cut: copyright issues
Kindly elaborate. If someone chooses not to seek healthcare for whatever reason, please explain how that could result in a lawsuit.

Last edited by Marka; 05-15-2009 at 01:34 AM..
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
I've visited Maryland. It's a gorgeous state. I think you'll like it there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Hip hip hooray!

We can always use another warrior in Maryland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Let me know how the fishin is I could use a good place to retire.
No disrespect intended; but, I lived in Silver Spring and DC's damn winters drove me out 31 years ago.

Although; the hell with most of California. That stated: Arizona suits me just fine
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