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Old 05-15-2009, 06:05 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,102,010 times
Reputation: 2244

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i was just agreeing with what another member posted. and sub-human is found in many forms and terms on this board. it is. and i was taking issue with the fact that some posters dont always say illegals, but instead focus on a certain group of people [mexicans].

but i try to keep it civil. with the exception of a couple posters who have persoanlly attacked me. thats old news tho.

otherwise i get on with everyone just fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
At what point did this cease to become a discussion about the KKK and turn into a ridiculous character assassination ??????? JDM, Benicar, and most of the posters here have "OPINIONS", nothing more, nothing less. This is the "illegal alien" forum . What did you expect? Roses? I personally have never seen the word "sub-human" used by any one on this forum, Pro or Anti.

A cesspool is as good a word as any to describe third world countries. Its just a catch phrase used by many people. You have come up with some pretty derogratory commentary yourself.

I guess here is what Im trying to get across. Its an emotional issue. Passions run high, but, you seem to be taking it personally. Mud slinging won't change anybodys views.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,982 posts, read 30,245,890 times
Reputation: 17790
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I stand by what I stated.
Right now, today I could go to my Church for help. Can a peasant in Mexico do the same? I doubt it. That's not the govt, that is the people and culture.

The proof is in the fact that over 20 or so million have left in the last 50 years. The poor in Mexico (mostly Indians) are treated the same as in a serfdom. No one can deny that.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:06 PM
 
Location: USA
65 posts, read 20,017 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Right now, today I could go to my Church for help. Can a peasant in Mexico do the same? I doubt it. That's not the govt, that is the people and culture.

The proof is in the fact that over 20 or so million have left in the last 50 years. The poor in Mexico (mostly Indians) are treated the same as in a serfdom. No one can deny that.
So in your mind that makes Mexicans into ... what???
Subhumans or people who should be paid at least as much attention to as some suicide bombers in downtown Baghdad?

Everyone, starting with the infamous Lou Dobbs, is lamenting the break down of the Mexican Nation state. But where was (and is!) America's attention focused for the past decade?
In the sands of Arabia and the mountains of the Himalayas!

How many billions were wasted on ungrateful terrorist entities like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iraq?
And all Mexico gets is insult added to injury.
That and a never ending hunger for illegal drugs and lethal assault weapons being pushed south of the border from the US of A.

Is Mexico a screwed up State as it is? Hell yes!
Is the US at least in part responsible for that and pays less attention to these issues than they do to the whimsical wishes of some towel headed Sheik in Arabia?
DAMN YES!
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:11 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,982 posts, read 30,245,890 times
Reputation: 17790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joghurta View Post
So in your mind that makes Mexicans into ... what???
Subhumans or people who should be paid at least as much attention to as some suicide bombers in downtown Baghdad?

Everyone, starting with the infamous Lou Dobbs, is lamenting the break down of the Mexican Nation state. But where was (and is!) America's attention focused for the past decade?
In the sands of Arabia and the mountains of the Himalayas!

How many billions were wasted on ungrateful terrorist entities like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iraq?
And all Mexico gets is insult added to injury.
That and a never ending hunger for illegal drugs and lethal assault weapons being pushed south of the border from the US of A.

Is Mexico a screwed up State as it is? Hell yes!
Is the US at least in part responsible for that and pays less attention to these issues than they do to the whimsical wishes of some towel headed Sheik in Arabia?
DAMN YES!
Something resembling a Serfdom, do you want to deny that? Mexico's elite control the wealth and the peasants get stepped on. That pretty much defines a Serfdom. How is Mexico's antiquated social structure now America's liability or responsibility?
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:18 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,062,356 times
Reputation: 2878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joghurta View Post
So in your mind that makes Mexicans into ... what???
Subhumans or people who should be paid at least as much attention to as some suicide bombers in downtown Baghdad?

Everyone, starting with the infamous Lou Dobbs, is lamenting the break down of the Mexican Nation state. But where was (and is!) America's attention focused for the past decade?
In the sands of Arabia and the mountains of the Himalayas!

How many billions were wasted on ungrateful terrorist entities like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iraq?
And all Mexico gets is insult added to injury.
That and a never ending hunger for illegal drugs and lethal assault weapons being pushed south of the border from the US of A.

Is Mexico a screwed up State as it is? Hell yes!
Is the US at least in part responsible for that and pays less attention to these issues than they do to the whimsical wishes of some towel headed Sheik in Arabia?
DAMN YES!
Towel heads? And you are pizzed that Mexico is somehow getting dissed by Americans? Pot meet racist kettle.......

And really, do you actually want the US to 'help' Mexico the way we have 'helped' Afghanistan and Iraq? Because something tells me that Mexicans would not like living under a US occupation force.

Which begs the question --- why the hell would we want to invade Mexico? Or are you suggesting (demanding) that the US spend 'billions' to 'fix' Mexico? Why should we? Why is the US responsible for Mexicos continued corruption and bad decision making? Because Mexicans have made billions off of US drug addicts that somehow makes the US government culpable to the Mexican government (which more then likely has been profiting from the drug sales for many, many years)?
Bullshiiite.

Mexico has problems because it is an inherently flawed nation rife with corruption and racism and/or classism. The upper and middle class Mexicans who are only now scared because of the escalating drug wars certainly didn't have a problem with the way their country ran things when times were good. They didn't have a problem with the poor being left to fend for itself if not encouraged to enter a neighboring sovereign nation illegaly. No, they liked the corruption as long as they benefited from it and if a substantial amount of their own people -- fellow Mexicans -- were left to rot in a generational cycle of poverty well then, at least the labor is cheap right?

Well, f*** them. We have our own problems, they caused theirs and perhaps its time for them to grow a pair -- dare I say cajones? -- and solve their own societal and governmental difficulties.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:27 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,062,356 times
Reputation: 2878
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
that would be the govt. not the culture!

because otherwise there is a great sense of responsibility among families and society to care for the street children, for the poor, for those abandoned by the elites.

i think you just exposed yourself...

I don't know about that. I know a woman whose dh is a missionary down in Mexico -- I don't recall where exactly.
Anyway, she began to volunteer at an orphanage (I know her from an adoption group and as you can imagine, orphans are near and dear to her heart).
The pix she took of the place was horrendous. She said that the caretakers were nice women who were trying their best but there were 20 small children per adult. They were sleeping in a room that was wall wall cribs, they all had some kind of infection that left snot running unchecked down their faces. They had no toys, barely a change of clothes for each of them and no hope of ever being adopted out as most of them came from families that could no longer afford to feed them yet still would not relinquish them to be adopted.
I mean when China orphanages manage to put an orphanage to shame you know you have got some major problems.
Again, the women who worked at the orphanage did the best they could, but clearly supporting this orphanage financially was not a priority to the either the government or the local more well to do citizens.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:51 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,648,295 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I don't know about that. I know a woman whose dh is a missionary down in Mexico -- I don't recall where exactly.
Anyway, she began to volunteer at an orphanage (I know her from an adoption group and as you can imagine, orphans are near and dear to her heart).
The pix she took of the place was horrendous. She said that the caretakers were nice women who were trying their best but there were 20 small children per adult. They were sleeping in a room that was wall wall cribs, they all had some kind of infection that left snot running unchecked down their faces. They had no toys, barely a change of clothes for each of them and no hope of ever being adopted out as most of them came from families that could no longer afford to feed them yet still would not relinquish them to be adopted.
I mean when China orphanages manage to put an orphanage to shame you know you have got some major problems.
Again, the women who worked at the orphanage did the best they could, but clearly supporting this orphanage financially was not a priority to the either the government or the local more well to do citizens.
Once again, CULTURE. The Mexcan culture has a very strong streak of FATALISM running through it. Many Mexican writers have extensively discussed this. It's VERY different from our generally 'optimistic' culture, in which we at least FEEL we have a 'say in things', and are the 'masters of our own destiny'.

In a fatalistic culture, things "are what they are", because that's the way it's ALWAYS been. The poor are POOR, because they're "meant" to be poor...and because that's their 'natural' state. The rich don't "help" the poor, much, because that would be 'going against tradition'. Things 'happen' mostly just because the 'happen'...and little is done to change destiny.

This isn't always the case, of course...and Mexico IS in the process of modernizing....but there's a distinctly different view of 'the poor' in many societies than there is here in the US.

Is Mexico's treatment of its poor our "fault"? No, it isn't..it's an outgrowth of that particular form of society, and one that needs to change, IN MY OPINION. When the situation becomes intolerable, the Mexicans themselves will take steps to change it. The fact that we're here (the US) providing a convenient 'safety valve' for the societal problems of Mexico probably retards the rate of change.

But in any case, Mexico's treatment of its own poor citizens is NOT the fault of the US. The US hasn't always been a perfect neighbor, but that's ONE thing that can't be blamed on us...it's a result of the way their society is 'put together'....
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,853,611 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Once again, CULTURE. The Mexcan culture has a very strong streak of FATALISM running through it. Many Mexican writers have extensively discussed this. It's VERY different from our generally 'optimistic' culture, in which we at least FEEL we have a 'say in things', and are the 'masters of our own destiny'.

In a fatalistic culture, things "are what they are", because that's the way it's ALWAYS been. The poor are POOR, because they're "meant" to be poor...and because that's their 'natural' state. The rich don't "help" the poor, much, because that would be 'going against tradition'. Things 'happen' mostly just because the 'happen'...and little is done to change destiny.

This isn't always the case, of course...and Mexico IS in the process of modernizing....but there's a distinctly different view of 'the poor' in many societies than there is here in the US.

Is Mexico's treatment of its poor our "fault"? No, it isn't..it's an outgrowth of that particular form of society, and one that needs to change, IN MY OPINION. When the situation becomes intolerable, the Mexicans themselves will take steps to change it. The fact that we're here (the US) providing a convenient 'safety valve' for the societal problems of Mexico probably retards the rate of change.

But in any case, Mexico's treatment of its own poor citizens is NOT the fault of the US. The US hasn't always been a perfect neighbor, but that's ONE thing that can't be blamed on us...it's a result of the way their society is 'put together'....
How true! We need to remove the pacifier. Itís time for Mexico to grow up. As long as they know they can rely on us to provide for their citizens, they will never be willing to take care of themselves.
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