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Old 05-11-2009, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517

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[quote=Slig;8760167]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. As far as I'm concerned, people shouldn't be judged based upon their country of origin, as long as they are lawful and not creating a burden. In the age of globalization borders should mean very little. This is already becoming the case in the European Union.
The problem is not simply country of origin but the trend by those of said country.
For example take our situation. The vast majority of illegals come from south of our border. As a result of this trend we will look at them more closely. Another is the simple fact that living conditions for the average person of a 3rd world nation would make them a higher risk than say someone from France. Who would want to return to a .50 an hour job when they can earn 15 times that here doing easier work?
Its a solid policy and should be enforced. We don't owe anyone a free ride or an exception. Mostly because we are in no position to do it. We ourselves are now cash strapped.
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Old 05-11-2009, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,075 posts, read 1,773,289 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
If the government made legal immigration a quicker and easier process it would undoubtedly decrease the amount of illegal immigration/undocumented immigrants. I have gone through the process and it is absolutely brutal, it took us nearly a year to get a visa. I have other acquaintances who have been rejected for visas, mostly because it was determined that the applicant was unable to prove that he/she had enough going for them in their country of origin (AKA - the applicant wasn't wealthy enough). Just because someone doesn't own a lucrative business, have a huge bank account and/or doesn't own a significant amount of land doesn't mean they are planning to outstay their visa limit. My wife's family will never be able to visit us here legally because they don't meet the financial/land owning requirements to be able to obtain a visitor's visa, meanwhile we can go back and forth as we please...this is absolulte bull**** if you ask me.

My solution is to:
A. decrease processing times for visa applications
B. eliminate land/wealth requirements for temporary visas

If undocumented people are going to be here anyway, I say document them and tax them...problem solved.
If the Government made it easier, the stampeed from foreign countries would ruin the nation. What we don't need is an influx of "visitor's" with or without visas. I agree, this is bullsh-t. We don't need anymore H-1B or AG2 or student visa's. If undocumented (illegals) are going to be here anyway, I say deport them or put them away for a very long time. Its time we quit being the dumping ground for every 3rd world country on the planet. Build the fence, build it high. Stop chain migration and start deporting all illegals. PROBLEM SOLVED
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,048 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Sorry but no matter how much protection we put on our borders people are going to find a way in if they want to. I feel there are better ways of spending tax money. In my opinion we waste far too much money on initiatives like this that are destined for failure (protecting the border, war on drugs, patriot act, etc.) It is massive wasted spending if you ask me.
The fact that you can even attempt to equate the border security of this nation and the war on drugs is laughable. A solid border, like the one that Israel has along its border would do quite nicely. It is formidable and impassible. How, with the implementation of a real wall, do you think people will cross thru out southern border with the same ease that they do today? I'll answer it for you, they wont. As human beings, we all tend to take short cuts. If we make things more difficult where it was once easy people will choose the next easiest rout. Do you really think our main influx of illegal aliens are coming from our northern boarder or a cross the pond in Europe?(They both total 5%) Or how about by boat from Asia? (It totals a whopping 10%) Or how about the southern border with Mexico? The vast border that has chain link fence and coyotes who know exactly when and where to pass? If you pick that one then BINGO you are right! 80% --EIGHTY-- comes from south of the border. 57% of the 80 are Mexican nationals, the remaining 23% and from other Latin American countries. When we half ass guard the border then sure it wasted money, but a real WALL with check points and designated crossing would effectively STOP 80%!! of the illegal alien overtaking of our southwest. What are they going to start parachuting in? Traveling to Cuba then to Miami? It will become so hard that the easiest way to get here will be legally. If at all, hell they may decide to attempt a clean up of their own country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Exceptionally bright students are allowed to graduate after the tenth grade and in some cases even earlier. If a student is very gifted and there is nothing left for he/she to learn in high school there is no reason to keep him/her there. I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, 60% was a D- which technically is a passing grade in high school.
Wow... You skirted around that analogy didn't you? What did your nice little lesson in how the education system works for extremely bright kids have to do with he point I made? My point was simple, if you lower standards to produce a specific outcome then the outcome is faulty and the situation hasn't changed. Kinda like banks changing the values of toxic assets on their books to come up with a desired result in their profit margins. It may look better on paper, but the situation remains the same That IS what you have suggested here. We lower our standards to import MORE undesirable people in a legal way. Either way they are a drain on the NATIVE TAX PAYERS.
Also last I checked 70% was a passing grade, anything below that was failing. I just graduated in 03' I don't think things have changed that much.
Also my girl friend is a teacher and she just assured me that in 1-12 grades, 60 IS a failing grade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Why should they discriminate against these people? My wife didn't meet those requirements because she was fresh out of college and came from a modest household, so of course she isn't going meet any kind of land/resources requirement. It still doesn't mean she should be treated differently than a 45 year old man with a ranch or a girl from a wealthy family. If she has a clean record and meets all the other requirements I don't feel the government should reject her simply because of that.
I have seen ENDLESS stories of heart ache and hardships faced by people, they don't really effect me anymore. I deal in FACTS. Try this one out. An immigrant Petition for Alien Relative, was part of the immigration reform act of the 1960s. It falls under the Chain Migration, I am totally against it, but it is and has been available to people, including you, since the 1960s. I know that it works as well, the Russian mail order bride sites as well as the site for getting Asian women can do it for you and get it pressed thru in no time. I work in the oil field and I have seen MANY men do it. It does make my skin crawl tho.
It is not the DUTY of the US to make a FOREIGNERS life easy. The constitution and the bill of rights where written for US citizens not Mexican citizens. If I had it my way way we would reinstate national quotas on immigration and start leveling out the ethnic diversity of the US. the fact that 58% of Mexicans think that the US southwest belongs to them doesn't make me feel all that friendly either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I don't know where you are getting this data but I do know that a significant number of legal immigrants are refugees (almost 2.4 million between 1980 and 2006) and a huge percentage of these people receive aid, some groups have unemployment numbers upwards of 80%. I'm not addressing refugees as that is a whole different topic and they are undoubtedly contributing heavily to this number.
Most of my data is source, from current events lit(the 33% number was from the book Liberty and Tyranny, ill get where it was sourced from later. i have checked it before tho and it is very solid), Zogby polls, immigrationwatch.com and MANY others. Here is another fun one you will like as well, LEGAL Immigrants take from out government at a 3 to 1 rate. Meaning? For every one dollar that they pay in taxes they draw THREE dollars out. Also the 33% figure is for LEGAL immigrants as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I know alot of people who agree with me. Native tax payers will stand to have less of a tax burden since these people who would already be here regardless are now documented and paying more in for taxes. Meanwhile, people like my wife's parents can come visit and spend money here as tourists which goes right into the economic machine. More people here means more spending which means more economic stimulation and more jobs. Shocking, I know.
Ill just let you reread the above part in red to take care of your so called economic stimulus that lax immigration laws would create. Oh and I know a lot of people that agree with me too.
Oh and if these people had SO much money to spend why are they fleeing here and signing up for free education, the DREAM Act, and welfare? Hmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Neither are the laws of any other country yet we go to those countries as tourists by the planeloads and without needing a visa.
Because we are the richest nation and we DO spend a lot of money over seas. Sorry, but it is what it is. The day ANY country has an issue with US nationals rushing their borders and attempting a reconquista then we can have a serious debate over your final quote.

I refuse to stand by and see immigration laws changed so the possible "few" victims of our system can have it easy. while in the mean time it will allow millions of others to flood thru and suck us dry.

Reminds of like when DDT was made illegal, tho this product saved MILLIONS as soon as one book comes out and claims that the carcinogens in it would hurt the children and the environment the EPA deems it illegal. I cant remember if ANY deaths at all where actually linked to it or found to be the cause, despite allegations.

The fall out of ending the use of DDT DID in fact cause the needless deaths of nearly ONE HALF BILLION people in third world countries. How? When malaria and other diseases are spread by mosquitoes and other flying insects the absence of a way to kill those insects lead to the mass spread of disease. But I'm sure they meant well.

to end..

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions," John Ray

Last edited by bambam0084; 05-11-2009 at 04:35 PM..
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,048 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
If the Government made it easier, the stampeed from foreign countries would ruin the nation. What we don't need is an influx of "visitor's" with or without visas. I agree, this is bullsh-t. We don't need anymore H-1B or AG2 or student visa's. If undocumented (illegals) are going to be here anyway, I say deport them or put them away for a very long time. Its time we quit being the dumping ground for every 3rd world country on the planet. Build the fence, build it high. Stop chain migration and start deporting all illegals. PROBLEM SOLVED

I find it funny that any one who can see thru the foggy B.S. of sob stories and guilts trips always falls on the side of closed and secure borders. I love it. REAL education empowers people, sad stories just "attempt" to cloud common sense.

+1 for you
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
Wouldn't an even simpler way to skirt illegal immigration be to secure the borders, enforce current immigration laws, and make it HARDER to come here illegally and opposed to legally?
Your example brings to mind raising the number of high school graduates by letting people graduate after the tenth grade or lowering a passing grade to 60% correct.
Why would a welfare state,the US, want to bring people of low/limited financial capacity and limited skills to our country? 33% of legal immigrants are already using a major welfare system, are you suggesting that we lower our standard even more as to raise that number even higher? Why would anyone want that? What do native tax payers stand to gain from lower immigration standards?

The US and its laws are not here for the leisurely use of foreigners. I'm sorry.
Especially factoring in our deepening recession---------if anything: the USA needs to be harsher in dealing with illegal aliens along with their enablers.

Besides: the immigration laws need to be reset to pre 1965 standards.
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. As far as I'm concerned, people shouldn't be judged based upon their country of origin, as long as they are lawful and not creating a burden. In the age of globalization borders should mean very little. This is already becoming the case in the European Union.
And as you may be aware: the hoops that each additional country had to jump through for inclusing in the EU, etc. are quite strict. Read that all applicants had to 'clean up their own backyards' first in their social, legal, cultural arenas, etc. before being handed the keys to the candy store.

Re: the USA, Mexico does not qualify-------it is too dysfunctional.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,048 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I was talking about Bambam's comment, "If I had it my way way we would reinstate national quotas on immigration and start leveling out the ethnic diversity of the US."
Of course you were. You were beat with that FACTS, no racism. SOLID facts, no sad stories, no emotion, just FAIR AND BALANCED facts. And the facts didn't line up the way you wanted them to. Sorry.

Now to address your addition. What is wrong with allowing people, who can offer our country something, preference over those who stand to offer little or nothing? Or even worse TAKE from the system that we all work for? I have not asked for some ethnic cleansing to take place here. Your liberal spin card is showing too. Might wanna cover that up a bit.

All I ask is that Italian stone masons, Middle eastern doctors, African school teachers, or Thai chefs who ALL have something real to offer this nation be given preference over Jose's high school drop out brother or any other under skilled person in his family. Because as it stands NOW, if Jose is a resident alien or a citizen and these other foreigners don't have a resident alien or relative here in the U.S., then Jose's flunky brother gets preference over them. Is that fair? Is that helping American. Again look up chain migration. It is what started ALL of this. I want our country to be diverse and IMPROVING thru immigration. Not falling further and further behind because we are IMPORTING failure.

Give me a break. You want your way and when you see that your point and sad stories are bunk, you run to a safe place in the corner and hide behind the race card.

Last edited by bambam0084; 05-12-2009 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
Reputation: 2520
The illegal immigration facts don't bother me because it is clear that the current legislation on this matter isn't working which is why I'm looking for ways to correct it. Laws can be changed. We do both agree on one thing that the current system isn't working. I'm just as upset about the number of undocumented workers here as you are, I just have a different solution for the problem than you do. You want to frivoulous spending to try and lock everybody out and I want to document everybody and tax them heavily. I welcome ethnic diversity and you despise it and want legislation to cause generational ethnic cleansing. These are the differences in our viewpoints.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:27 AM
 
Location: York, PA
2,662 posts, read 5,134,811 times
Reputation: 2562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I welcome ethnic diversity and you despise it and want legislation to cause generational ethnic cleansing. These are the differences in our viewpoints.
I welcome diversity as well, but not if it's violent and has nothing to offer. Sadly, this is the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=moreheadlines

You can't sit there, Slig and tell me that these losers had anything meaningful to contribute to our nation. Now, we get to feed and house them for the rest of their lives. That goes for anyone else, no matter where they are from.

Last edited by Gil3; 05-12-2009 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,048 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
The illegal immigration facts don't bother me because it is clear that the current legislation on this matter isn't working which is why I'm looking for ways to correct it. Laws can be changed. We do both agree on one thing that the current system isn't working. I'm just as upset about the number of undocumented workers here as you are, I just have a different solution for the problem than you do. You want to frivoulous spending to try and lock everybody out and I want to document everybody and tax them heavily. I welcome ethnic diversity and you despise it and want legislation to cause generational ethnic cleansing. These are the differences in our viewpoints.
wow.

You are trying to limit the legitimacy of EVERYTHING that I have said by saying I am a racist. Nice try, at least if you would have just said to shut up i could have respected that.

NATIONAL QUOTAS don't cause generational ethnic cleansing. It allows for EACH country a certain number of people to immigrate.

Is this Diversity? From immigration information
Quote:
More than 83 percent of the Mexican born resided in just 10 states.
California had the largest number of foreign-born residents from Mexico (4,396,435) in 2006, followed by Texas (2,339,715) and Illinois (724,845).
or is this helping to improve our Country???
Quote:
Three in five Mexican immigrants had no high school degree. (From a 2006 census)
Quote:
Here is some more diversity.
Quote:
The largest share of the foreign-born population in the United States were from Latin America.
Of the total foreign-born population in the United States in 2007, 3.7 percent were from Africa, 26.8 percent from Asia, 13.1 percent from Europe, 53.6 percent from Latin America (South America, Central America, Mexico, and the Caribbean), 2.2 percent from Northern America (Canada, Bermuda, Greenland, and St. Pierre and Miquelon), and 0.6 percent from Oceania.
All I ask is that we EVEN out the numbers and give preference to the people who can HELP our country not further its demise. Its quite simple.
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