U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-18-2009, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2521

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
This is supposed to be comparable to his analogy of 40 million Americans moving to Mexico, refusing to assimilate and demanding rights even though there aren't citizens of Mexico? Nice try to spin, but I'm not buying.
I think in some ways what we have done to their beach communities is more disturbing. They come here out of neccesity to provide for their families while we go there to treat their towns like our personal playground. Also, saying that 40 million people here demand rights/refuse to assimilate is bull****. I'm fairly well connected with the Hispanic community here and from all of my experience that is an exception far more than it is a rule.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-18-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I think in some ways what we have done to their beach communities is more disturbing. They come here out of neccesity to provide for their families while we go there to treat their towns like our personal playground. Also, saying that 40 million people here demand rights/refuse to assimilate is bull****. I'm fairly well connected with the Hispanic community here and from all of my experience that is an exception far more than it is a rule.
Being that Mexico's per capita income is over $14K a year and that starvation is not an issue there------------I call BS on your statement that illegal aliens are living here to provide for their families.

It is past time for the (mostly Mestizo) peons SoB to 'grow a pair' and demand their rights from the (mostly) White elite.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post

Yeah, because that is the case in Europe. Except it isn't a big deal at all because the majority of Europeans know at least 4 languages. The biggest problem in the US is our unwillingness to learn Spanish. If we put more emphasis of Spanish in our education system this wouldn't be a problem.

The places where it is a problem are in countries that have hundreds of different languages because of a large number of different indigenous tribes (Guatemala, some African countries, etc.) We're talking about only two different languages though, TWO! Europe has no problem with 20 languages, so the fact that we can't figure out two is pathetic in my opinion.
The cold reality that outside of Spain/Latin America is that Spanish is of little importance-----------much like French.

The de facto tongue of the USA is English. If some Hispanics hate it----------they can leave.

Note which language that the protesters in Iran are using aside from Farsi: is English-----------not Spanish, Arabic, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Being that Mexico's per capita income is over $14K a year and that starvation is not an issue there------------I call BS on your statement that illegal aliens are living here to provide for their families.

It is past time for the (mostly Mestizo) peons SoB to 'grow a pair' and demand their rights from the (mostly) White elite.
Is the 14k a median or a mean? I would guess mean. You're right that the wealth needs to be more fairly distributed in the country. There is plenty of wealth to go around there, it just happens to all sit in the hands of an elite few. Alot of this happens to do with a lack of government there (lack of anti-trust, enforcement, etc.) and a surplus of corruption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
The cold reality that outside of Spain/Latin America is that Spanish is of little importance-----------much like French.

The de facto tongue of the USA is English. If some Hispanics hate it----------they can leave.

Note which language that the protesters in Iran are using aside from Farsi: is English-----------not Spanish, Arabic, etc.
I'm not sure what the Iran comparison is very relevant, people will learn and speak languages that will allow them to communicate with who is around them to communicate to. People in Brazil learn Spanish because it is surrounded by Spanish speaking countries. People in Western European countries learn Spanish because they are near Spain. There is a large English presence in the Middle East because of Israel, India, etc. and there aren't any Spanish speaking countries anywhere near Iran so it benefits them very little to bother with Spanish. With how much Spanish influence we have in the US and proximity to Latin America it only makes sense that we place more emphasis on learning Spanish, you have to agree that it would be beneficial if everybody was bilingual.

Last edited by Cruz Azul Guy; 06-18-2009 at 08:41 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,585 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I think in some ways what we have done to their beach communities is more disturbing. They come here out of neccesity to provide for their families while we go there to treat their towns like our personal playground. Also, saying that 40 million people here demand rights/refuse to assimilate is bull****. I'm fairly well connected with the Hispanic community here and from all of my experience that is an exception far more than it is a rule.
Even if the numbers are exaggerated (as I'm sure 12 million is also not even close), the concept is the same. As far as what "we" have done to their beaches, they are tourist destinations, and the businesses there support and encourage all that goes on for their own profit.
And as far as assimilating, I say in complete confidence that the vast majority of ILLEGALS do NOT assimilate. As far as your "experience" with the hispanic community, leave Minneapolis to areas of CA, AZ, NM and TX, and tell me if your have the same experience. I however have lived in Minneapolis and here, and I'm sorry but you know nothing of the extent of the disrespect and refusal of assimilation that actually takes place. That's almost like someone in Alaska saying "the 3 illegals here are really nice, I don't know what all the fuss is about".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
Even if the numbers are exaggerated (as I'm sure 12 million is also not even close), the concept is the same. As far as what "we" have done to their beaches, they are tourist destinations, and the businesses there support and encourage all that goes on for their own profit.
And as far as assimilating, I say in complete confidence that the vast majority of ILLEGALS do NOT assimilate. As far as your "experience" with the hispanic community, leave Minneapolis to areas of CA, AZ, NM and TX, and tell me if your have the same experience. I however have lived in Minneapolis and here, and I'm sorry but you know nothing of the extent of the disrespect and refusal of assimilation that actually takes place. That's almost like someone in Alaska saying "the 3 illegals here are really nice, I don't know what all the fuss is about".
Some Mexicans profit from US/European tourism to their beaches but the fact of the matter is that all the good property, hotels, clubs, etc. are owned by Americans and Europeans, not Mexicans. I doubt Mexican citizens see as much of a benefit of that as alot of people probably think. You think they see that tax revenue in their public services? Unless their public services include the pocket of politicians than probably not so much.

Point taken on the Minnesota comment, and it is very possible I'd think differently if I was a resident of Arizona or SoCal. Although I feel I have a little bit more knowledge and have more personal experience on the subject than most Minnesotans. My neighborhood is 30-40% Hispanic and I'm in the 2nd largest Hispanic area in the state (behind Westside St. Paul). It can't compare to SW United States but it sure ain't Alaska either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post


I'm not sure what the Iran comparison is very relevant, people will learn and speak languages that will allow them to communicate with who is around them to communicate to. People in Brazil learn Spanish because it is surrounded by Spanish speaking countries. People in Western European countries learn Spanish because they are near Spain. There is a large English presence in the Middle East because of Israel, India, etc. and there aren't any Spanish speaking countries anywhere near Iran so it benefits them very little to bother with Spanish. With how much Spanish influence we have in the US and proximity to Latin America it only makes sense that we place more emphasis on learning Spanish, you have to agree that it would be beneficial if everybody was bilingual.
It would indeed make sense for Mexico to be bilingual in English as well as Spanish: Mex is a pipsqueak compared to the USA---------our economic power is ca. 10 times greater despite us having less than 3 times the population.

And; with the growing anti illegal alien sentiment---------Spanish is fading in importance here in the USA.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
It would indeed make sense for Mexico to be bilingual in English as well as Spanish: Mex is a pipsqueak compared to the USA---------our economic power is ca. 10 times greater despite us having less than 3 times the population.

And; with the growing anti illegal alien sentiment---------Spanish is fading in importance here in the USA.
Trends in numbers of people in the US speaking Spanish would suggest otherwise. I would argue that the Spanish language is as important in the US as ever right now. In areas with significant Hispanic presence you're putting yourself at a disadvantage for not knowing Spanish. I wouldn't be able to get half of the services I get in South Minneapolis or communicate with 30-40% of my neighbors without Spanish...and we're talking about Minnesota.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,929 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
The cold reality that outside of Spain/Latin America is that Spanish is of little importance-----------much like French.

The de facto tongue of the USA is English. If some Hispanics hate it----------they can leave.

Note which language that the protesters in Iran are using aside from Farsi: is English-----------not Spanish, Arabic, etc.
The cold reality is that Spain/Latin America have a lot of people, making Spanish the forth language with most native speakers, just after Mandarin, English and Hindi. French on the other hand is further down the list, having only 1/4 of the native speakers population as English, Spanish or Hindi.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2009, 11:12 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I think in some ways what we have done to their beach communities is more disturbing. They come here out of neccesity to provide for their families while we go there to treat their towns like our personal playground. Also, saying that 40 million people here demand rights/refuse to assimilate is bull****. I'm fairly well connected with the Hispanic community here and from all of my experience that is an exception far more than it is a rule.
I understand your concern about Americanos despoiling the beaches of Mexico. In the future, this may become less of a problem. Thanks to the drug cartel violence and emerging infectious diseases such as H1N1, Mexico may no longer be regarded as a great vacation spot and retirement destination.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top