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Old 06-23-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,041,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Are you sure of this? Please provide source.
Look in your local newspaper for ads for auctions, listing "Seized vehicles for sale, $500". They come from police seizures of criminals' cars, motorcycles, boats, etc.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
What are you suggesting, that everybody who breaks the law should have their assets seized? A little extreme, don't you think?
I would say seizing the assets of illegals is more than justifiable given that they are acquired through illegal means. Use the proceeds to help offset the cost of deportation. It also removes the reward for their misdeeds.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
Look in your local newspaper for ads for auctions, listing "Seized vehicles for sale, $500". They come from police seizures of criminals' cars, motorcycles, boats, etc.

But those are generally bought in direct relationship of the crime commited. As in, you scammed a million people and got 100 million, so we send you to jail and take the 100 million away. But if you during the period of the scam, worked and made 1 million. They do not take that one million away. Or if you killed someone and come from an affluent family, they do not take all your money, your house, your car, and your kids college fund.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
But those are generally bought in direct relationship of the crime commited. As in, you scammed a million people and got 100 million, so we send you to jail and take the 100 million away. But if you during the period of the scam, worked and made 1 million. They do not take that one million away. Or if you killed someone and come from an affluent family, they do not take all your money, your house, your car, and your kids college fund.
That could be because the 1 million was earned legally , as opposed to every dollar an illegal earns which is earned illegally. Every dollar an illegal earns, every item they purchase with said money should be subject to seizure.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
That could be because the 1 million was earned legally , as opposed to every dollar an illegal earns which is earned illegally. Every dollar an illegal earns, every item they purchase with said money should be subject to seizure.
That could be a good argument, I would think that there is a rather hefty burden of proof, as far as linking the money the individual worked for, than for example if he had gotten it by using the credit cards of another person.

I think this would be even made more difficult, by the last ruling by the Supreme Court, basically ordering prosecutors at the federal level to stop misusing ID theft to leverage immigration cases.

Now, also it could be argued, that under your reasoning, someone who parks illegally, broke the law and profited by working a full day while parking illegally. had he not parked illegally he would have not been able to work that day so a day's pay should be levied.

Again, I think there is a burden of prove or direct effect from breaking the law. (As in they got the money not because they broke the law, but because they worked for it. Had they not worked and just used a fake ID they would have not gotten the money)

Maybe you should try to convince a prosecutor that you are correct, and that they should try to seize illegal alien's assets. As things stand I think that would be incorrect and I'm happy that there is a big burden of prove before seizing anyone's assets.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,041,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
But those are generally bought in direct relationship of the crime commited. As in, you scammed a million people and got 100 million, so we send you to jail and take the 100 million away. But if you during the period of the scam, worked and made 1 million. They do not take that one million away. Or if you killed someone and come from an affluent family, they do not take all your money, your house, your car, and your kids college fund.
No, not really. Please provide a link that correlates your story. Oh wait...you won't be able to find one, because it doesn't exist. Most of those vehicles were seized because the operator of said vehicle was in possession of a narcotic. So let's see.....Possession of a narcotic......illegally entering the country, identity theft, fraud.......you be the judge.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
No, not really. Please provide a link that correlates your story. Oh wait...you won't be able to find one, because it doesn't exist. Most of those vehicles were seized because the operator of said vehicle was in possession of a narcotic. So let's see.....Possession of a narcotic......illegally entering the country, identity theft, fraud.......you be the judge.

You may be right, I do not have anywhere close enough legal knowledge to dispute it. But I do know, the people who do have the legal knowledge and are in the position to do so, are not going after the assets. And I can't help but wonder "why?". Specially since some of these prosecutors are not really illegal friendly.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
That could be a good argument, I would think that there is a rather hefty burden of proof, as far as linking the money the individual worked for, than for example if he had gotten it by using the credit cards of another person.

I think this would be even made more difficult, by the last ruling by the Supreme Court, basically ordering prosecutors at the federal level to stop misusing ID theft to leverage immigration cases.

Now, also it could be argued, that under your reasoning, someone who parks illegally, broke the law and profited by working a full day while parking illegally. had he not parked illegally he would have not been able to work that day so a day's pay should be levied.

Again, I think there is a burden of prove or direct effect from breaking the law. (As in they got the money not because they broke the law, but because they worked for it. Had they not worked and just used a fake ID they would have not gotten the money)

Maybe you should try to convince a prosecutor that you are correct, and that they should try to seize illegal alien's assets. As things stand I think that would be incorrect and I'm happy that there is a big burden of prove before seizing anyone's assets.
You make quite a stretch to compare a parking ticket to illegal immigration.
Fact illegals are here knowingly against the law. Therefore everything thing that they do is also knowingly against the law, with the exception of self deportation.
Here illegally, no SSN or using a false ssn. Not paying taxes on money earned. Using a fake ID etc. The crime of illegal immigration grows into a host of many more crimes. All of which are committed with full knowledge of the illegality of their actions.
No way do they deserve a walk on their misdeeds.
I see that you have a nice house. Better than mine by far. I assume that you have a good job and lots of money. I further assume that it it is only fair that I should be allowed to plunder some of what you have. After all you have so much more than I do. So I help myself to some of your possesions. At first just small things. Maybe I camp out in your shed that you never go into. As time goes by I become even more bold. So I start to enter your house when your not home. Eat some food, take some clothes etc. More time goes by and now I feel as though your property is also mine and I demand my rights to what you thought was yours. This is the mentality of the illegal.... Now some bleeding hearts feel bad for me because I have nothing and you have so much... This is the mentality of the pro illegal side. We have so much and they only want a better life. No thought to the cost of rewarding illegal behaviors. No thought to the message it would send if we grant amnesty.
So in my scenario should I be granted a portion of your estate? Should I not be arrested for entering your home without permission?
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
You make quite a stretch to compare a parking ticket to illegal immigration.
Fact illegals are here knowingly against the law. Therefore everything thing that they do is also knowingly against the law, with the exception of self deportation.
Here illegally, no SSN or using a false ssn. Not paying taxes on money earned. Using a fake ID etc. The crime of illegal immigration grows into a host of many more crimes. All of which are committed with full knowledge of the illegality of their actions.
No way do they deserve a walk on their misdeeds.
I see that you have a nice house. Better than mine by far. I assume that you have a good job and lots of money. I further assume that it it is only fair that I should be allowed to plunder some of what you have. After all you have so much more than I do. So I help myself to some of your possesions. At first just small things. Maybe I camp out in your shed that you never go into. As time goes by I become even more bold. So I start to enter your house when your not home. Eat some food, take some clothes etc. More time goes by and now I feel as though your property is also mine and I demand my rights to what you thought was yours. This is the mentality of the illegal.... Now some bleeding hearts feel bad for me because I have nothing and you have so much... This is the mentality of the pro illegal side. We have so much and they only want a better life. No thought to the cost of rewarding illegal behaviors. No thought to the message it would send if we grant amnesty.
So in my scenario should I be granted a portion of your estate? Should I not be arrested for entering your home without permission?

You are also making quite a stretch to go from illegal immigration, to criminal treaspasing, and theft.

And under U.S. law, if there is a vacant land and you develop it, and for many years the rightful owner does not use it and you continue to work it, you have legal resources to take ownership of the land.

My question goes again. If this is the case, then why prosecutors are not going after the assets? Is it just because the are being P.C. or because they do not have a legal recourse?
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,041,880 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
You are also making quite a stretch to go from illegal immigration, to criminal treaspasing, and theft.
WTF? Are you serious???? That's EXACTLY what illegal immigration is!
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