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Old 05-12-2009, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,669,573 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
The threat of deportation has nothing to do with how hard an undocumented worker is going work, they are motivated to work hard so they can support their families. Where does this lazy stereotype come from? The Latin American workers I've come into contact with are the hardest workers I've seen. I personally would struggle to work 2 full-time jobs with a third part-time job. I don't know any American born people who pull that off, although I imagine there is a rare exception here and there. I'm not sure what you refer to when you say "creme de la creme." If you're talking about wealth it is pretty obvious that wealthy Latin Americans fly here on visitor visas and the ones who come here to work are not wealthy. Beyond that many of them are very good people. The media takes the few that get involved with gangs and crime and give people a false perception that this is what all of them are like and it simply isn't true.
Said illegals still need to leave------------period.

If they were such hard workers---------let them return home and build up their own nations.

And as for Mexican nationals-----------starvation is no longer a problem SoB, obesity is starting to become one though.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,746 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmuychingon View Post
Hm.

I wonder why hm?? Is it because I would like to see multiple ethnic groups populating our country? Is it because I am against the immigration of unskilled and undereducated people, that statistics have shown, WILL cost me more money thru welfare services?

Or maybe you don't like the example that I have used to show the uneducated example? Would you have felt better if I had said O'Brien's undereducated brother? You may have liked that one more.

That, however, would not be the truth. The truth of this argument is that the overwhelming majority of the immigrants that I have list before, that are on a welfare system, undereducated, and under skilled, are of a Hispanic decent. We are not having some Irish immigrant rush, that abuses chain migration, and that uses OUR welfare systems at will. That's not the truth and the facts don't support that either.

Immigration from south of our border is different from any in the past. We, native born U.S. citizens, CAN NOT continue to pay and pay and pay for the welfare of those immigrants that never could contribute themselves! I will not and do not feel guilty for asking for the bar to be raised on immigration. I am not a racist either. I openly WISH that we could have immigration laws that would let the most educated and skilled workers come here first. To help us improve our ways of life, not be just another burden.

That said, if there where a flood of Mexican doctors, teachers, scientist, carpenters(not day laborers either), and engineers trying to immigrate I would love to see them moved to the top of the line.

But THAT is not the case. You and I both now that.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:45 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,819,682 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Tinman, that is encouraging news. I hope I have the same luck as you have. If you can prove to me that Thai nationals are treated the same as Mexican nationals in regards to a visitor's visa application then you might just sway me.

The USA has by far the highest number of immigrants of any nation in the world and the majority of legal immigrants come from Mexico.

How much easier must it be?

At some point we have to accept that the entire world cannot simply pack up and move to the USA, our population is growing at a tremendous rate mostly due to massive immigration and our economy is collapsing.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:48 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,819,682 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
The threat of deportation has nothing to do with how hard an undocumented worker is going work, they are motivated to work hard so they can support their families. Where does this lazy stereotype come from? The Latin American workers I've come into contact with are the hardest workers I've seen. I personally would struggle to work 2 full-time jobs with a third part-time job. I don't know any American born people who pull that off, although I imagine there is a rare exception here and there. I'm not sure what you refer to when you say "creme de la creme." If you're talking about wealth it is pretty obvious that wealthy Latin Americans fly here on visitor visas and the ones who come here to work are not wealthy. Beyond that many of them are very good people. The media takes the few that get involved with gangs and crime and give people a false perception that this is what all of them are like and it simply isn't true.
The problem is -- La Raza would be the first to scream if government handouts including Medicaid were to be cut off from illegals and their anchor babies. Imagine if no more food stamps could be sent to illegal-headed households?

If these people were so hard working, they could make it in their own country because Mexico actually has a middle class but they aren't the people who start having children at age 14 or 15 and don't have a child every year.

There are some that work pretty hard -- but not the majority. The counties along the border all have very high welfare rates.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,549 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Sorry but no matter how much protection we put on our borders people are going to find a way in if they want to. I feel there are better ways of spending tax money. In my opinion we waste far too much money on initiatives like this that are destined for failure (protecting the border, war on drugs, patriot act, etc.) It is massive wasted spending if you ask me.



Exceptionally bright students are allowed to graduate after the tenth grade and in some cases even earlier. If a student is very gifted and there is nothing left for he/she to learn in high school there is no reason to keep him/her there. I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, 60% was a D- which technically is a passing grade in high school.



Why should they discriminate against these people? My wife didn't meet those requirements because she was fresh out of college and came from a modest household, so of course she isn't going meet any kind of land/resources requirement. It still doesn't mean she should be treated differently than a 45 year old man with a ranch or a girl from a wealthy family. If she has a clean record and meets all the other requirements I don't feel the government should reject her simply because of that.



I don't know where you are getting this data but I do know that a significant number of legal immigrants are refugees (almost 2.4 million between 1980 and 2006) and a huge percentage of these people receive aid, some groups have unemployment numbers upwards of 80%. I'm not addressing refugees as that is a whole different topic and they are undoubtedly contributing heavily to this number.



I know alot of people who agree with me. Native tax payers will stand to have less of a tax burden since these people who would already be here regardless are now documented and paying more in for taxes. Meanwhile, people like my wife's parents can come visit and spend money here as tourists which goes right into the economic machine. More people here means more spending which means more economic stimulation and more jobs. Shocking, I know.



Neither are the laws of any other country yet we go to those countries as tourists by the planeloads and without needing a visa.

So in essence your suggestion is to not "waste" any more money on securing the borders and let everyone come in and out of the country as they please> Please correct me if I'm wrong. The problem with that is that this is a country of laws and they are in place to avoid chaos. By the same token, people are goingt o rob banks so why shpuld we bother to spend money on security guards and surveilance systems. Certainly you jest. There are rules and regulations of why people are required to come here legally, and while my heart bleeds for you and your plight, We simply CANNOT allow the system that is implemented, The very reason why so many people want to be here, to be done away with. Taxing them at higher rates would not benefit the American people as much as it would create a whole NEW slew of problems...
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,549 times
Reputation: 66
[quote=Slig;8760167]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. As far as I'm concerned, people shouldn't be judged based upon their country of origin, as long as they are lawful and not creating a burden. In the age of globalization borders should mean very little. This is already becoming the case in the European Union.

By definition 'Undocumented' people are not lawful and they absolutely DO create a burden. I am not familiar with Visa problems, but it seems to me you're theories are based on personal issues. We can't change everything around because a few people miss their families. Just thank God you're able to go and visit with them...
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:40 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
147 posts, read 186,549 times
Reputation: 66
[quote=Slig;8775012]How is this relevant? The article makes no suggestion of their immigration status, so for all you know they could be U.S. citizens or be legal aliens. I never said I was pro-murder and I would agree that gangs and gang violence is a very serious problem.

We obviously have different viewpoints on immigration, what I am trying to find is a fiscally feasible way we could tackle the problem. Human rights issues aside, in my opinion it would be silly to build a huge wall and line it with guards 24/7, it would be too costly and people would end up still finding ways to get in. If they want to come here, they still will.

Limiting the number of legal immigrants will just increase the number of illegal immigrants, like I said, if people want to get in, they'll get in, legal or not.

My idea would increase tax revenue without building costly walls and hiring costly guards.[/quot

Just out of curiosity, how would you propose addressing the enormity of the financial burden illegal put on taxpayers. Would it suffice to tax them? Even if they were granted citizenship or residency, do you think that their contributions would surpass the benefits they would reap?
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,899 posts, read 30,151,453 times
Reputation: 17726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Where do you have this data, are you a social worker? At least in my state poor white citizens from the outskirts and rural areas eat up more wellfare money than any other group of people and it isn't close. I don't know a single undocumented individual who is getting welfare benefits. They don't have the documentation necessary to apply for that type of aid, either that or they are too afraid of exposing themselves. I do know quite a few undocumented people who pay for third party medical insurance which means they aren't using assisted healthcare. You all seem to paint this picture of undocumented worker's as being some kind of blood sucking parasite and most really aren't anything like that.
You are kidding right? The next time you are in SD take a drive by the WIC office over in Chula Vista. The line will be across the field on the first of the month. Their kids are American by default of the second but finding a parent that can speak English is rare. At any local ER you will see the same and they aren't paying, if they were they wouldn't be closing them.
You really think most Illegals don't use social services, get paid under the table and are squeaky clean with the law? If they are driving they are breaking 2 or 2 laws right there and our roads are packed with them.

Oh, since you are new most posting on here know that my wife is a Crime Analyst for a local agency. I get to see more data than I care too and it makes me sick.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Earth,for the time being...
80 posts, read 242,636 times
Reputation: 125
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!!... We're being overrun with lawbreaking ILLEGAL aliens & it's costing the taxpayers millions - millions that we don't have right now to waste on ADDED expenses that we don't need & can't afford anymore...If someone wants to come into our country by LEGAL channels, I think they should be WELCOMED with open arms...
It may take time & there are rules to follow, but - TOO BAD !! If you don't like the rules, don't come here...
If someone comes in ILLEGALLY, they should be arrested & deported - no amnesty - no sympathy - no discussion..... They broke the laws of our country & they should pay for it, just like any other criminal that would rob, rape or kill...It's time to quit playing games - the Government should quit playing politics & kissin the butts of all the other countries & get the military in place to guard our borders & our way of life...The LEGAL American people are the ones that our leaders swore to govern & protect - not the ILLEGALS -- they're not doing their jobs....It's time to post armed Military personnel to guard every square inch of our nations' borders & when anyone tries to cross our borders ILLEGALLY they should be met with force, whether it be a farmer or a known terrorist... Our borders should be guarded with the same diligence that any of our miltary installations are guarded... Try to infiltrate one of those places uninvited & there's a good chance that you'll be warned, then shot...If they start the journey sneaking into our country as a CRIMINAL, why would anyone believe they would suddenly change their habits once they got in ???
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:42 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,118,202 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongohateswinter View Post
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!!... We're being overrun with lawbreaking ILLEGAL aliens & it's costing the taxpayers millions - millions that we don't have right now to waste on ADDED expenses that we don't need & can't afford anymore...If someone wants to come into our country by LEGAL channels, I think they should be WELCOMED with open arms...
It may take time & there are rules to follow, but - TOO BAD !! If you don't like the rules, don't come here...
If someone comes in ILLEGALLY, they should be arrested & deported - no amnesty - no sympathy - no discussion..... They broke the laws of our country & they should pay for it, just like any other criminal that would rob, rape or kill...It's time to quit playing games - the Government should quit playing politics & kissin the butts of all the other countries & get the military in place to guard our borders & our way of life...The LEGAL American people are the ones that our leaders swore to govern & protect - not the ILLEGALS -- they're not doing their jobs....It's time to post armed Military personnel to guard every square inch of our nations' borders & when anyone tries to cross our borders ILLEGALLY they should be met with force, whether it be a farmer or a known terrorist... Our borders should be guarded with the same diligence that any of our miltary installations are guarded... Try to infiltrate one of those places uninvited & there's a good chance that you'll be warned, then shot...If they start the journey sneaking into our country as a CRIMINAL, why would anyone believe they would suddenly change their habits once they got in ???
AMEN!!!
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