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Old 05-14-2009, 05:27 PM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,117,125 times
Reputation: 302

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Talk about a slap in the face of legal immigrants who played by the rules.

Again: why should criminal behavior be rewarded---------especially with our sick economy?

Bottom line: it needs to be tough to immigrate to the USA.
Awesome Post!!! Unfortunately, I think my "REP-ing" ability got taken away or something..

 
Old 05-14-2009, 07:18 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Deportation doesn't work...we have seen the results already.
Deportation hasn't even been tried yet. How can you say something that hasn't been done can't work?

No one wants only deportation but deportation with other measures like going hard after the crooked employers, ending government handouts to people who shouldn't be here, no more back door way around the immigration laws simply by giving birth, and no promises of amnesty would work together with deportations.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 07:44 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,078,866 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Talk about a slap in the face of legal immigrants who played by the rules.

Again: why should criminal behavior be rewarded---------especially with our sick economy?

Bottom line: it needs to be tough to immigrate to the USA.
Look my mom and I played by the rules...it's not a slap in the face.

With our sick economy, we should try to stimulate it. Thus, trying to reform immigration to at least try to meet the needs of American citizens as well as those entering into our nation. Creating teaching positions, healthcare positions. You can even try to reduce tuition by signing up college kids to intern as ESL teachers. There are tons of ways to cut costs, stimulate the economy, and help people.

We also can't be like Japan, with it's buy out of immigrants. They are growing older and less productive as a nation. They speak less secondary languages, as compared to China and South Korea. We need to recognize that being young and cosmopolitan/multicultural enables us to be competitve as well.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 07:45 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,078,866 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Deportation hasn't even been tried yet. How can you say something that hasn't been done can't work?

No one wants only deportation but deportation with other measures like going hard after the crooked employers, ending government handouts to people who shouldn't be here, no more back door way around the immigration laws simply by giving birth, and no promises of amnesty would work together with deportations.
Operation Wet Back. That was mass deportation, also did not end too well. Also people that have been deported, (there have been people deported) simply came back. I remember listening on the radio where the story was about a man who tried coming into the US 5 times. It is fairly typical for multiple attemps.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 07:58 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Operation Wet Back. That was mass deportation, also did not end too well. Also people that have been deported, (there have been people deported) simply came back. I remember listening on the radio where the story was about a man who tried coming into the US 5 times. It is fairly typical for multiple attemps.
That's why I said not deportation just by itself. You also have to end the enticements.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 08:02 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Operation Wet Back. That was mass deportation, also did not end too well. Also people that have been deported, (there have been people deported) simply came back. I remember listening on the radio where the story was about a man who tried coming into the US 5 times. It is fairly typical for multiple attemps.
They don't always come back, especially if they know it's not a sure thing to make it over the border.

One guy who lived by me was deported a few months ago. He tried a couple times to get back over and then got a bus and headed home to his wife and kids and now has decided he likes Mexico better and wants to stay there. There's some Mexican government program apparently that helps returning farmers because according to this guy he got some cows and other livestock and decided working his own farm is better than being some dirt paid laborer here for others.

You're right though - the multiple attempts need to stop. It's too easy the way it is now. I've always been in favor of getting them home quickly but maybe you're right - some prison time would work better, keep them from coming right on back and hurting their chance to earn any income in either country.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 08:05 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Look my mom and I played by the rules...it's not a slap in the face.

With our sick economy, we should try to stimulate it. Thus, trying to reform immigration to at least try to meet the needs of American citizens as well as those entering into our nation. Creating teaching positions, healthcare positions. You can even try to reduce tuition by signing up college kids to intern as ESL teachers. There are tons of ways to cut costs, stimulate the economy, and help people.

We also can't be like Japan, with it's buy out of immigrants. They are growing older and less productive as a nation. They speak less secondary languages, as compared to China and South Korea. We need to recognize that being young and cosmopolitan/multicultural enables us to be competitve as well.

The problem with the illegals are great for the economy argument is that we have more immigrants and illegals than ever and our economy isn't doing too well. 30 million plus illegals haven't saved the economy - and certainly not California's economy. But they didn't save their own country's economy either. Mexico's own government pension plan will go under even before social security does.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 08:17 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Look my mom and I played by the rules...it's not a slap in the face.
Anyhow the best way to have more legal immigration is to quit rewarding the employers that refuse to sponsor legal temporary workers and immigrants because they can make a bigger profit by breaking the law and bringing in all kinds of illegals.

It becomes difficult for honest businesses who would actually pay what it costs to sponsor people to compete when the corrupt business can make much higher profits by breaking the laws.

Massive uncontrolled illegal immigration does hurt those who would like to do it the honest way, there are fewer jobs, less "need" for employer sponsors, less need for work visas.

You might say the illegals not only take jobs from American citizens, they also take the jobs the legal immigrants would like to have.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Operation Wet Back. That was mass deportation, also did not end too well. Also people that have been deported, (there have been people deported) simply came back. I remember listening on the radio where the story was about a man who tried coming into the US 5 times. It is fairly typical for multiple attemps.
Those illegals are definitely Felons (getting caught a second time entering the USA is indeed a Felony) and need to spend some time in a Tent City in North Dakota.

Before anyone gripes about treating lawbreakers in such a manner: if tents are good enough for our Armed Forces---------they sure as hell good enough for illegal aliens when caught.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 09:25 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,078,866 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The problem with the illegals are great for the economy argument is that we have more immigrants and illegals than ever and our economy isn't doing too well. 30 million plus illegals haven't saved the economy - and certainly not California's economy. But they didn't save their own country's economy either. Mexico's own government pension plan will go under even before social security does.
Nobody is saying that they are saving the economy. Think about it like this:

Say you are running the state of CA. One of the biggest sources of revenue for the state of CA is sales tax. If you send a significant amount of people away, then your revenue will decline. Also, states like OH, which don't have a lot of illegal immigrants are less willing to fund programs to deport. Thus, the federal gov't might require individual states fund a significant portion of the costs.

If those funds are allocated towards teachers and doctors (which would have more support on a federal level), then this will increase higher paying jobs (doctors and teachers), and also have the opportunity for creative student financing (college juniors and seniors teaching ESL, college seniors being teacher aides, med school students doing more internships at hospitals). So the benefit is job creation for Americans and increased benefits for Americans as well as illegal immigrants.
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