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Old 05-14-2009, 10:26 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,087,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Those illegals are definitely Felons (getting caught a second time entering the USA is indeed a Felony) and need to spend some time in a Tent City in North Dakota.

Before anyone gripes about treating lawbreakers in such a manner: if tents are good enough for our Armed Forces---------they sure as hell good enough for illegal aliens when caught.
Tents? What?

 
Old 05-14-2009, 10:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
They don't always come back, especially if they know it's not a sure thing to make it over the border.

One guy who lived by me was deported a few months ago. He tried a couple times to get back over and then got a bus and headed home to his wife and kids and now has decided he likes Mexico better and wants to stay there. There's some Mexican government program apparently that helps returning farmers because according to this guy he got some cows and other livestock and decided working his own farm is better than being some dirt paid laborer here for others.

You're right though - the multiple attempts need to stop. It's too easy the way it is now. I've always been in favor of getting them home quickly but maybe you're right - some prison time would work better, keep them from coming right on back and hurting their chance to earn any income in either country.
I didn't about the Mexican gov't program. That sounds like a good idea as well.

As for prison time...generally I think that prison is a bad idea (except for violent criminals and mid-high level white collar criminals/ high level theives). We tend to send too many to prison in this nation. It really is taking a toll on finances.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 10:33 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Nobody is saying that they are saving the economy. Think about it like this:

Say you are running the state of CA. One of the biggest sources of revenue for the state of CA is sales tax. If you send a significant amount of people away, then your revenue will decline. Also, states like OH, which don't have a lot of illegal immigrants are less willing to fund programs to deport. Thus, the federal gov't might require individual states fund a significant portion of the costs.

If those funds are allocated towards teachers and doctors (which would have more support on a federal level), then this will increase higher paying jobs (doctors and teachers), and also have the opportunity for creative student financing (college juniors and seniors teaching ESL, college seniors being teacher aides, med school students doing more internships at hospitals). So the benefit is job creation for Americans and increased benefits for Americans as well as illegal immigrants.

California is not a shining example. It used to be a very wealthy state with a school system that was envied. Not any more. Taxpayers are fleeing that state now.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 10:37 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I didn't about the Mexican gov't program. That sounds like a good idea as well.

As for prison time...generally I think that prison is a bad idea (except for violent criminals and mid-high level white collar criminals/ high level theives). We tend to send too many to prison in this nation. It really is taking a toll on finances.

Then prison time for the employers of illegals.

The whole illegal thing has to stop. Then if there's a need for immigrant workers, employers will have to sponsor and provide for them. Legal immigration is the way to go about it.

For example right now, there is the H2B visa program which has no limits. It's for temporary agricultural workers -- but the employer has to pay legal wages and try to employ Americans first. They don't want to so they don't use it.

The illegal employers need to be shut down, they compete unfairly with those who go about it the right way -- including those employers who sponsor legal immigrants.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 10:45 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,087,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
California is not a shining example. It used to be a very wealthy state with a school system that was envied. Not any more. Taxpayers are fleeing that state now.
That's why I picked it. It's a great example. It still is a very wealthy state, (largest economy in the nation, best public university system, very highly educated state). Many of its school districts are the top in the nation (Irvine, most of Marin county, Yorba Linda). It's far from what many people, who live out of state, post on this board.

The middle class (since most people in the US in general are taxpayers) have left for cheaper locations, but since housing prices went down...my suspiscion is that once the economy picks back up we will see a reduction in movement away from the state.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 10:52 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,087,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Then prison time for the employers of illegals.

The whole illegal thing has to stop. Then if there's a need for immigrant workers, employers will have to sponsor and provide for them. Legal immigration is the way to go about it.

For example right now, there is the H2B visa program which has no limits. It's for temporary agricultural workers -- but the employer has to pay legal wages and try to employ Americans first. They don't want to so they don't use it.

The illegal employers need to be shut down, they compete unfairly with those who go about it the right way -- including those employers who sponsor legal immigrants.
I'd agree only if human abuses were going on and pay was lower than the min. wage.

This is for a few reasons. First, I don't want to put even a single burden on the prison system. Esp. in CA where our incarceration rates are really high. It's a waste of money to send somebody to prison that employed and did not harm another person. Fines, maybe. Jail time is expensive. The other reasons are more philosphical and moral in nature. I'm more a moral relativist.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 10:54 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I'd agree only if human abuses were going on and pay was lower than the min. wage.

This is for a few reasons. First, I don't want to put even a single burden on the prison system. Esp. in CA where our incarceration rates are really high. It's a waste of money to send somebody to prison that employed and did not harm another person. Fines, maybe. Jail time is expensive. The other reasons are more philosphical and moral in nature. I'm more a moral relativist.
They sent the guy from Enron to prison for less. At least Enron employed Americans while the employers of illegals won't do that.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 10:58 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,719,093 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Nobody is saying that they are saving the economy. Think about it like this:

Say you are running the state of CA. One of the biggest sources of revenue for the state of CA is sales tax. If you send a significant amount of people away, then your revenue will decline. Also, states like OH, which don't have a lot of illegal immigrants are less willing to fund programs to deport. Thus, the federal gov't might require individual states fund a significant portion of the costs.

If those funds are allocated towards teachers and doctors (which would have more support on a federal level), then this will increase higher paying jobs (doctors and teachers), and also have the opportunity for creative student financing (college juniors and seniors teaching ESL, college seniors being teacher aides, med school students doing more internships at hospitals). So the benefit is job creation for Americans and increased benefits for Americans as well as illegal immigrants.
If all the illegals left, CA may lose the sales tax illegals pay but they would save even more by not having to pay to educate illegal alien children, they would save a bundle if the state was no longer required to provide medical care to them (which they do not pay for), the state would no longer be on the hook for the costs of incarceration of the criminal illegals, there would be less need for interpreters in hospitals and courts, hopefully auto insurance rates would go down since there would be fewer uninsured drivers- sorry, but the positives of them leaving far outweigh the negatives.

Look, our own HS dropouts are use more in services than they pay in taxes. What on earth makes you think that the breadwinner of a family who has a 6th grade education and no job skills, who does not even speak English is going to somehow power the CA economy skyward?
 
Old 05-14-2009, 11:00 PM
 
2,385 posts, read 3,713,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Do you think that some of what is said on here is needlessly dramatic at times? Many threads are over generalized, dramatic, and doesn't aim at creating a viable solution. Instead they tend to polarize and incite an emotional reaction. What do you think?
I think no one wants to hear the truth. Everyone just wants their prejudice reinforced.
 
Old 05-14-2009, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,584,781 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I think no one wants to hear the truth. Everyone just wants their prejudice reinforced.
Prejudices such as...
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