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Old 05-13-2009, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,761,828 times
Reputation: 4539

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Use it to pay the billions in services they use.
The number of billions in services they use is far higher than the number of billions in taxes they pay.

 
Old 05-13-2009, 02:25 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
The number of billions in services they use is far higher than the number of billions in taxes they pay.
I've seen enough Hospitals close to know that's true.
 
Old 05-13-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,761,828 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I've seen enough Hospitals close to know that's true.
No matter how many times we say it though, the pro-illegals will continue to evade the truth.
 
Old 05-13-2009, 02:38 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
The number of billions in services they use is far higher than the number of billions in taxes they pay.
I know, but it would at least be a start.
 
Old 05-13-2009, 05:01 PM
 
16 posts, read 20,371 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
We are a part of the problem in the US...it's not a great fact to admit, but it's true. Not us as individuals, but rather the system. Our mass consumer culture breeds unfair trade and a balance of wealth that is concentrated in the hands of the few.

.
Would it be too "dramatic" to suggest the author of this paragraph is a doctrinaire leftist, probably with (revisionist?) socialist and maybe even
Marxist leanings? How is America's "mass consumer culture", created with
the Protestant capitalist ethic of "more for more"---that is, mass manufacturing leading to more wealth for the common man--- creating
a balance of wealth that is concentrated in the hands of the few? Are
we to prefer the catholic Latino ethic, which seems to be one of "less for more" , that is, overburdening a host culture's material success with reproductive excesses and dragging everything down?
 
Old 05-13-2009, 05:33 PM
 
16 posts, read 20,371 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Simply blaming the third world for surviving is not a good tactic. Higher birth rates are essential in the third world. It's their form of social security. .
I keep thinking of that TV show I saw years ago which indicated the C.I.A. was more afraid of the threat Mexico's population problem posed to America than they were of the pre-Reagan era Soviet Union. I think a
core question America must ask itself if it is to survive as a nation is How responsible is this country for the reproductive and societal ills of any other country? I say that we can try to help ailing countries provided the American people decide that doing so is in their best interests. We should
not be badgered, blackmailed. intimidated, half-truthed or inveigled into doing so by those who can exploit our country's weaknesses---its political correctness, the taboo against discussing race, the disingenuousness of its pandering Democrat politicians, its naivete, disunity, and lack of previous experience with regard to mass illegal invasions---or by those, pro-capitalist or otherwise, who promote a quintessentially anti-American Human Rights orthodoxy of open borders.
 
Old 05-13-2009, 06:56 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
They are here Illegally which means in the preponderance of cases they were already a family. My point being this should be happening in the home Countries schools not ours. The mothers racing across the desert to have a kid here were in Mexican schools not ours.
Very true. Or -- what happened to that dramatic argument they use "We just come to feed our starving families" -- which certainly implies they already had families when they came.

A large number of illegals have two families. The wife (or girlfriend) and kids back in Mexico which is the whole reason for the Western Union money wires and the girlfriend and kids in the USA that bring in food stamps, free housing, WIC and much more.
 
Old 05-13-2009, 07:00 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sw0rdfish View Post
Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States' economy. The widespread belief is that illegal aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is undeniably false. [E]very empirical study of illegals' economic impact demonstrates the opposite . . .: undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy.

SSRN-Taxing Undocumented Immigrants: Separate, Unequal and Without Representation by Francine Lipman

Sure..... the send billions back to Mexico in the form of remittances, while they come there by the millions to work those low paying jobs that no American could live on..... They work for cash under the table but are very careful to pay into FICA and Social Security as required by law.....

They're magic people. Able to work for dirt pay but pay billions in taxes, PLUS billions in remittances, and not only that they pay all their medical bills and never take food stamps in spite of having many many babies. And they're buying houses and paying their mortgages on time. Oh yes, we believe they can do all that -- in spite of having no education beyond the third grade, a high unwed motherhood rate and can learn no English.
 
Old 05-13-2009, 07:04 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,066,563 times
Reputation: 2244
yes, yes i do.

hysteria and hyperbole. after a while you figure who has something real to say and who just like the drama.

good luck finding solutions here.

and the way to solve illegal immigration is to secure the borders and do something with the process/length it takes to become a citizen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Do you think that some of what is said on here is needlessly dramatic at times? Many threads are over generalized, dramatic, and doesn't aim at creating a viable solution. Instead they tend to polarize and incite an emotional reaction. What do you think? Also, do you think that ultimately the way to solve illegal immigration is not via some sort of comprimise (be it with illegal immigrants and/or those for illegal immigrant/immigrant rights).
 
Old 05-13-2009, 07:06 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
You are right, we didn't technically. We gave an ultimatum. We arrived into the country to via Veracruz to march to Mexico City. We had significant interest in CA (where rich Mexicans who were fed up with the current system were told that their land holdings would be honored if they joined the side of the Bear Flag Republic...it was never honored).

The Gadsen purchase was a stipulation a means to resolve the "disputed" area on the border.

The US intervention was essentially outright stealing. Instead of respecting already set boundaries, the US decided to "intervene" and obtain 55% of Mexico's land at a ridiculously low price.

So, you're right...we didn't outright steal their land. But we waged war and gave many ultimatums and marched to their capital. The Fall of Mexico City. Either sign the treaty or total annexation of Mexico.
That's a silly argument for you to make since according to you they've messed up Mexico so bad that they will starve to death if they ever return and must all be converted into USA citizens.

You're justifying why the USA should have taken all of Mexico because as you try to explain, Mexicans simply must live in the USA. So -- Mexico should sit empty? It's unliveable as it is, but the USA is only to take all the people, none of the land and resources?

The Mexicans living in what is now part of the USA --- a handful of people as most Mexicans have always lived in or near Mexico City --- were given American citizenship. None of this current immigration involves them in any way and I know wealthy Spanish surnamed Americans who still own the land from the Spanish land grants.
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