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Old 10-29-2010, 03:48 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Why do you believe a market friendly work visa should be constrained to available jobs? Simply obtaining a work visa is not a guarantee of employment, but merely the legal right to work in the US.

It would help native US labor by funding unemployment compensation on the same at-will basis as employment relationships.
So you think that most Americans would rather be on unemployment than gainfully employed? Americans should sit on their duffs while foreign labor pours in by using these "market friendy" visas to work?
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Old 10-29-2010, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,946,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So you think that most Americans would rather be on unemployment than gainfully employed? Americans should sit on their duffs while foreign labor pours in by using these "market friendy" visas to work?
Just a heads up - this poster is constantly pushing this at will UE compensation schtick over on the UE forum with little traction as well. So now he's expanded his utopian bubble to include selling "work visas" for all and sundry. I guess that fixes the illegal immigration "problem" in his mind, but I still fail to see what the majority of his posts here have to do with illegal immigration myself.
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:34 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,330 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So you think that most Americans would rather be on unemployment than gainfully employed? Americans should sit on their duffs while foreign labor pours in by using these "market friendy" visas to work?
I think less marketable, native US labor could go to school to become more competitive, learn a new and more marketable vocation, or simply pursue Happiness as enumerated in our social contract.
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:35 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,330 times
Reputation: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
Just a heads up - this poster is constantly pushing this at will UE compensation schtick over on the UE forum with little traction as well. So now he's expanded his utopian bubble to include selling "work visas" for all and sundry. I guess that fixes the illegal immigration "problem" in his mind, but I still fail to see what the majority of his posts here have to do with illegal immigration myself.
Just a little heads up; those of the opposing view don't have a real argument since any fallacy works for the general warfare and common offense, but no amount of logic and reason seems good enough for the common defense and general welfare.

Why do you believe we should resort to the coercive use of force of the State, rather than lawful Commerce to solve our social dilemmas?
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:52 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
I think less marketable, native US labor could go to school to become more competitive, learn a new and more marketable vocation, or simply pursue Happiness as enumerated in our social contract.
Less marketable? If they are less marketable they probably don't want to go to school. They are the ones that need the blue collar jobs that the illegals have taken. This is America, we can be a ditch digger or a brain surgeon if we "want" to but no one should be forced make a career out of something they don't like to do.

Are you tired of chasing your tail yet?
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: deep in the south
233 posts, read 389,677 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Why do you believe a market friendly work visa should be constrained to available jobs? Simply obtaining a work visa is not a guarantee of employment, but merely the legal right to work in the US.

It would help native US labor by funding unemployment compensation on the same at-will basis as employment relationships.

Using your "market friendly work visa" idea......they buy this visa and come here, then lo and behold they find no work available for them........now what? Do they too soon sign up for those magical handouts know as WIC, section 8 housing and such or do they get to go home immediately? And if they get sick, who pays that bill, who pays for them to go home again? Too many variables in your "work visa" plan for me. Besides if they had enough $$$ to pay anything but a token amount for this visa why would they be wanting to come here as it would seem to me that they are making a decent living in their own country.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:12 AM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,330 times
Reputation: 479
Some people pay more than three thousand dollars for the privilege and immunity of being smuggled into the US.

Market friendly work visas are temporary and could expire every year; they would need to be renewed with a new fee. Anyone with an expired work visa would simply be fined into legality.
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Some people pay more than three thousand dollars for the privilege and immunity of being smuggled into the US.

Market friendly work visas are temporary and could expire every year; they would need to be renewed with a new fee. Anyone with an expired work visa would simply be fined into legality.
I have the same questions as mollies mom. Can you respond to her post? Also, would you care to expound on the “privilege and immunity” and “fined into legality” sections of your post?
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,098,330 times
Reputation: 479
Which of mollies post's are you referring to? I believe I have answered all of her posts and am waiting for a rebuttal.

Facing the possibility of a fine, most market participants would rather pay a fee rather than a more expensive fine; in any event, it is easier to keep track of individuals on a yearly basis and with a market based impetus to become legal on the part of foreign labor in the US. Compare and contrast that to our current regime of Prohibition.
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Old 10-30-2010, 03:21 PM
 
Location: deep in the south
233 posts, read 389,677 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Which of mollies post's are you referring to? I believe I have answered all of her posts and am waiting for a rebuttal.

Facing the possibility of a fine, most market participants would rather pay a fee rather than a more expensive fine; in any event, it is easier to keep track of individuals on a yearly basis and with a market based impetus to become legal on the part of foreign labor in the US. Compare and contrast that to our current regime of Prohibition.
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You didn't quite answer what I asked you. What happens after they pay their fee for their "work visa" and then when they arrive find no job available? How do they then support themselves? Do they have to be totally self sufficient? Or do they get to sign up for social services such as food stamps, housing assistance, medical care etc? If they were unable to sign up for any handouts, well then your "work visa for a fee" wouldn't be a burden to us taxpayers but if they were able to recieve any social program help at tax payers expense I see that as just one more case of them digging into our pockets and I for one am tired of having my pockets picked.
As for them paying the coyotes for smuggling them into this country, well if they can pay that much to those coyotes then why do they have a problem paying the normal fees associated with coming here legally and waiting their turn in line for that privilidge? It always seemed to me that they have the opinion that they are above doing things the way they are set up, they scream and yell about how much it costs to come here and yet they seem to have no problem paying these coyotes some big bucks to smuggle them in.
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