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Old 05-20-2009, 02:41 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,530 posts, read 20,094,501 times
Reputation: 22536

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Has anyone ever researched this? How many senior citizens, retired, who merely want something to do, have been turned down for these jobs, even if they were only to be paid $5 an hour? And high school students? And anyone else?

And it's not just the pay. Give someone a job, at very low pay, that's truly rewarding and not something an android could do, and you'll find people lining up for that job.

What percentage of people hate their jobs in this country? How many people in Mexico hate their jobs? Or anywhere else in the world? I hate my job each and every day, but I must, must and must, otherwise, at least in my line of work, a legal, not illegal, immigrant will take it away from me.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,944 posts, read 30,857,581 times
Reputation: 12992
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
What jobs have illegals actually taken away that legal Americans are willing to do for minimum wage? Are you willing to pay $10 for your MickyD compbo meal? This is a little problem compared to our higher paid jobs being outsourced to India and China. Not many people can say they lost thier job to an illegal but there are millions who can say that thier job was outsourced to another country. These are the companies to go after. They get a majority of thier income from the US consumers, but barely no one here works for them.


Are you serious?

Did you even think before you typed that out??

Illegals working here, is outsourcing. DUH!!!! I don't think you actually get the big picture here!!


There millions of people that lost their jobs to illegals, way before overseas outsourcing got rolling. We skilled craftsmen and women, are way ahead of you, in the amount of jobs lost to outsourcing(to illegals)
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,902 posts, read 22,779,519 times
Reputation: 8644
Are any of you construction/home contractors? Or maybe knew some in the field? Ask them about hiring laborers? I have numerous friends who spent the money (Advertising, hanging signs and the such) and tried to hire people for the spring/summer seasons. Up to and including this past weekend. They can't find American bodies to fill these positions. Well then you say the wages are too low? These guys pay $10-$16 an hour. And the ones they do get don't want to work (not all but most). They yes you to death during the interview. They are told its physical labor. They need to be assembling thier crews and can't get them filled. This current generation of 18 something through 20 something just don't want to do physical work. We talk about this frequently as to why a large percentage of thier crews are hispanic. Lets see they show up. period. The day starts at 7:00am (hispanics don't call out for the hell of it). They are told what is needed for the day and they do it. If they have questions, they ask. If they eat or drink something before lunch - not an issue. Thier American counterpart (non hispanic) spend too much time texting. They work slow, they need to be hunted down frequently. Lunch is an a hour (not 1.5, not 2). Hispanics go back to work after lunch. The day runs to 3:30ish per day. And once in a while (about every weeks) they get the afternoon off with pay as a thank you for meeting or exceeding the goals. Hispanics (documented or undocumented) have a work ethic. I've seen this through my own eyes. I've worked as a crew chief on a weekend. Personally I would give them work visas and let them pay taxes to work here. They fill a hole that many of our so called poorest are not willing to do. Read numerous other threads about how bad it is to do work. How many threads do you see that people just say "I have a job and I'm willing to do what is needed to keep it".

With the economy the balance has changed, but when the economy reverts to what is considered normal then we will see who will be working as what.

For those of you that have kids. Let me guess they are all willing to go out into the yard and do labor without question. They will finish the list without question. You don't have check up on them. They wont complain at all. They know that they are working for their wages (roof over thier head, food, toys, clothing, mad money etc).

So maybe some of you armchair warriors out there need to go out and see the real world. Watching TV and reading about it is just following some elses thinking.

And who am I. I am not a hispanic. But I am the son of a immigrant. I know what its like to share an apartment with multiple families. I know what poor is. My generation of poor (immigrant) did not have welfare, food stamps, section 8, and a bunch of other entitlements. I have no issue with doing menial labor. I've worked hard to get where I am.

To give another example of people not willing (want is another issue) to take low paying jobs, I walked through a mall a fewdays back. "Help Wanted" signs were everywhere. So again, who will fill these positions.

I travel the world mostly as a non-tourist. I see what countries are just like us. I see which countries have work ethics. I go where my job sends me.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:05 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,011,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
Are any of you construction/home contractors? Or maybe knew some in the field? Ask them about hiring laborers? I have numerous friends who spent the money (Advertising, hanging signs and the such) and tried to hire people for the spring/summer seasons. Up to and including this past weekend. They can't find American bodies to fill these positions. Well then you say the wages are too low? These guys pay $10-$16 an hour. And the ones they do get don't want to work (not all but most). They yes you to death during the interview. They are told its physical labor. They need to be assembling thier crews and can't get them filled. This current generation of 18 something through 20 something just don't want to do physical work. We talk about this frequently as to why a large percentage of thier crews are hispanic. Lets see they show up. period. The day starts at 7:00am (hispanics don't call out for the hell of it). They are told what is needed for the day and they do it. If they have questions, they ask. If they eat or drink something before lunch - not an issue. Thier American counterpart (non hispanic) spend too much time texting. They work slow, they need to be hunted down frequently. Lunch is an a hour (not 1.5, not 2). Hispanics go back to work after lunch. The day runs to 3:30ish per day. And once in a while (about every weeks) they get the afternoon off with pay as a thank you for meeting or exceeding the goals. Hispanics (documented or undocumented) have a work ethic. I've seen this through my own eyes. I've worked as a crew chief on a weekend. Personally I would give them work visas and let them pay taxes to work here. They fill a hole that many of our so called poorest are not willing to do. Read numerous other threads about how bad it is to do work. How many threads do you see that people just say "I have a job and I'm willing to do what is needed to keep it".
This is not the first time I've heard this from construction industry business owners. I've heard the same complaints from people I know. They can't pay much more and still be competitive, yet they can't seem to attract non-Hispanic hard workers without overpaying for non-skilled reliable labor. And sometimes, it's almost impossible to find people to work, period. I guess if their competition weren't hiring illegals it would help, but then again, you'd imagine it would have to drive up the cost of the projects for the consumer as a result of the higher wages.

Of course, I'm not in that industry so I wouldn't know enough about it to offer solutions or weigh in. And these are only two perspectives out of thousands and thousands. Maybe they have just had bad luck or are doing something wrong. It's easy for me to sit here at my desk job and make assumptions about how I think they should be running their business I suppose.

Maybe others in the construction industry can chime in on this and explain how they're able to remain competitive without hiring illegals.

Last edited by Ludachris; 05-20-2009 at 02:49 PM..
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,902 posts, read 22,779,519 times
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Being competitive is not the issue. Finding people to work is. If its a small crew (3-4) then its rare to find illegals in the mix. But when a job requires 8-10 (or more) laborers at one time then it becomes an issue. As I said earlier, If 10 hispanics were called to be at a site at 5am on a Sunday, they would be there. Period. How many 18/20 yo legal Americans would? The balance is need vs want.

And BTW I'm not in the industry. I telecommute (IT) on the computer to the right of me for most of my day (I drive in to the office for about 15 hrs /wk). I do what my job requires of me. I'm just from a different generation that actually speaks to people after the work day is mostly over.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,011,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
Being competitive is not the issue. Finding people to work is. If its a small crew (3-4) then its rare to find illegals in the mix. But when a job requires 8-10 (or more) laborers at one time then it becomes an issue. As I said earlier, If 10 hispanics were called to be at a site at 5am on a Sunday, they would be there. Period. How many 18/20 yo legal Americans would? The balance is need vs want.

And BTW I'm not in the industry. I telecommute (IT) on the computer to the right of me for most of my day (I drive in to the office for about 15 hrs /wk). I do what my job requires of me. I'm just from a different generation that actually speaks to people after the work day is mostly over.
And I've heard that as well - finding people to do the work. Interesting perspective. I'd like to hear more from people in the industry to see how they're dealing with this. Maybe it makes sense to start a new thread.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,530 posts, read 20,094,501 times
Reputation: 22536
But let's also look at the side effects. Here, In Las Vegas 25% of the homes sit vacant, and I've watched the price of my home (my retirement fund) fall from $200k to $50k, and still falling. And when I look at these immigrants hanging out at Home Depot, who were largely responsible for this mess, should I go up to each one of them and say Thank-you?

Off topic, it's a crying, crying shame that we didn't utilize these immigrants' strengths/talents when they were here. Low quality, wooden, stick-built housing is foreign to these immigrants. In all my nunerous travels thru Mexico, Central and South America, walking thru their neighborhoods, did I ever see a wooden structure. Each and every one: concrete, including the roof, which affords them those wonderful rooftop decks on their houses.
Eat my heart out! And please don't insult my intelligence by telling me it costs so much more to build out of concrete as there is a scattered site developer in this city putting up concrete houses (Latin American style) and he claims each house costs only $3k more than a wooden house. He was featured not too long ago in the newspaper here with photo's and all. These are houses that will outlast a nuclear holocaust.

And what do we have for all their aborted efforts? A slew of poor-quality, trashy houses, and the lawsuits over construction defects keep mounting every day.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,902 posts, read 22,779,519 times
Reputation: 8644
Tij, If you carefully look at the construction sites you would seen that the laborers were the hispanics. The craftsman were Americans (framers, bricklayers, plumbers, electricians, etc....). The hispanics do what they are told. And I agree with you. When you go out of the US alot more concrete is used is building homes. In some countries it is the entire skeleton of the house. Also if you go to middle class Mexico, you can see the higher quality homes. They take pride in what they do once the constraints have been removed.

But please explain to me how they are largely responsible for the mess we are in.
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