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Old 05-23-2009, 01:52 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,092,812 times
Reputation: 822

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
[/b]

. . . . .and that ladies and gentlemen is the truth in a nutshell. Preach on sista, preach on.
Really, and you are one to talk...

 
Old 05-23-2009, 01:55 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,651,346 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You are either living in a fantasy


Clearly, you will defend illegal immigration no matter how much damage it does to this country. You have no genuine desire to discuss illegal immigration. You have a pro-illegal/open borders agenda, and you will defend it by any means necessary.
I have to go along with this, as well. Illegal immigration is never mentioned by this poster in any regard, except to insist "it's not a problem, it's an opportunity", or words to that effect. Clearly, this person is not interested in anyone's ideas but his own.....which is OK, as long as we keep that in mind....(and also, as long as we realized we'll be 'taken to task' for anything we say..like what will probably happen to me, for agreeing with you)...
 
Old 05-23-2009, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 509,693 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Compared to Europe, we have really low densities of people. In CA, we can create more sustainable communities (smaller homes, more walkable areas, jobs closer to homes, an improvement on the hub and spoke style of development here in California (where there are multiple downtown regions surrounded by residental regions)).
I know that this is going to be WAY out there, but why can't people decide what they want for themselves? I choose to live in the country and commute. I don't care for city life. I like my four wheelers. It makes me happy living the way i do. Your conformist, one world, open borders agenda is scary to say the least. Why cant I live how I want? My life is very "sustainable."
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
You completely fail to mention the fact that by 2nd or 3rd generation many are a part of the middle class, thus the middle class grows. This argument was negated in the early 1900s when people stated that the nation will become a nation of poor immigrants. What happened was that the children of said immigrants became the backbone of the middle class.
So your plan is for us to cultivate a FUTURE middle-class generation of immigrants, at the expense of our CURRENT NATIVE citizens? You have lost your mind. I want MY children to do well. I want to work for MY children as well as other native children.

Why do we need to import and cultivate the next generation of ILLEGAL immigrants so that THEIR kids can have it good, when we are having a hard enough time just raising our own, native, kids??

Your out of touch.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 01:56 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,092,812 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You are either living in a fantasy world, or you are simply disingenuous. Tell me, who can support a family TODAY, with a $40,000 gross pay? Of course, if you are single and don’t pay taxes or don’t have children, you could survive. Even the illegal alien construction workers are forced to live 15 to a 1-bedroom apartment to make ends meet. If they are earning so much, why are they so poor?

Also, please be sure to tell all of the U.S. construction workers nationwide how much illegal immigration hasn’t ruined their livelihood. While you’re at it, also make sure to tell all of the ‘legitimate’ construction contractors who lost their businesses because they couldn’t compete against unscrupulous companies employing illegal aliens.

Clearly, you will defend illegal immigration no matter how much damage it does to this country. You have no genuine desire to discuss illegal immigration. You have a pro-illegal/open borders agenda, and you will defend it by any means necessary.
More things...

Obviously you did not read my post...I talked about wage depression at the lower scale of construction (construction is an industry, not a job...many types of construction jobs).

Seeing how you really did not even see how I mentioned that those hiring illegals should be punished, and said I might initially be receptive to E-verify shows that in fact YOU are the one that is not want to discuss illegal immigration issues. Rather, you want to berate somebody online. Well, if you are going to try to pin something on me...do your research. Read my posts. Respond back to the post. That might grant you some legitimacy. And it will actual be a discussion since you can make accusations based on the DISCUSSION...rather than those you sloppily read.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 01:57 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,651,346 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
I know that this is going to be WAY out there, but why can't people decide what they want for themselves? I choose to live in the country and commute. I don't care for city life. I like my four wheelers. It makes me happy living the way i do. Your conformist, one world, open borders agenda is scary to say the least. Why cant I live how I want? My life is very "sustainable."


So your plan is for us to cultivate a FUTURE middle-class generation of immigrants, at the expense of our CURRENT NATIVE citizens? You have lost your mind. I want MY children to do well. I want to work for MY children as well as other native children.

Why do we need to import and cultivate the next generation of ILLEGAL immigrants so that THEIR kids can have it good, when we are having a hard enough time just raising our own, native, kids??

Your out of touch.
Absolutely!...I totally concur with BOTH these paragraphs! My thoughts exactly...
 
Old 05-23-2009, 02:00 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,092,812 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I have to go along with this, as well. Illegal immigration is never mentioned by this poster in any regard, except to insist "it's not a problem, it's an opportunity", or words to that effect. Clearly, this person is not interested in anyone's ideas but his own.....which is OK, as long as we keep that in mind....(and also, as long as we realized we'll be 'taken to task' for anything we say..like what will probably happen to me, for agreeing with you)...
By simply stating that there things that we should do here...to improve the lives of illegals that ALREADY ARE HERE?

Again I've agreed with people with prosecuting those that hire illegals. You fail to mention that...I've also never stated that we should completely REALISTICALLY (ideally yeah, realistically no) have no border patrol. I've stated that there should be no wall.

Also, you don't agree with me, yet I don't claim that you are not discussing illegal immigration.

Again, read the posts...tear yourself away from yourself and maybe you might like some suggestions. I've like some people's suggestions.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 02:04 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,651,346 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
By simply stating that there things that we should do here...to improve the lives of illegals that ALREADY ARE HERE?

Again I've agreed with people with prosecuting those that hire illegals. You fail to mention that...I've also never stated that we should completely REALISTICALLY (ideally yeah, realistically no) have no border patrol. I've stated that there should be no wall.

Also, you don't agree with me, yet I don't claim that you are not discussing illegal immigration.

Again, read the posts...tear yourself away from yourself and maybe you might like some suggestions. I've like some people's suggestions.
Yes, that's a worthwhile suggestion....I should 'tear myself away from myself' and open my mind.....thanks for the example; I'll begin working on it.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,857,919 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
No I'm saying that we are putting our collective efforts in the wrong direction. Reports of how "illegal immigrants made this crisis" and "illegal immigrant crime waves" and "the introduction of third world criminality in calm suburbs" (all topics and issues that have been expressed by many on this board) are created to be divisive. They are created to enable those in power to continue. Think about the civil rights movement. Poor whites were against poor blacks on an arbritrary issue. What happened was that those in power benefited by creating an underclass. This undermined the poor Whites wages. Look, united we stand...divided we fall.

I'm simply stating that there could be better uses for our money. I did mention means to control illegal immigration. With that said, there should be a priority towards putting money towards the poor. This debate is essentially hurting poor Americans, poor illegals, and the middle class. The rich benefit.
I wholeheartedly agree that “united we stand, divided we fall.” We ARE falling. We are falling because we have greedy and corrupt leaders who have been bought by corporations who profit from cheap illegal labor. We are falling, because our government has permitted foreigners to invade our country, depress wages, replace our citizens in the workforce, decimate our neighborhoods, manipulate our laws, and abuse our taxpayers. If illegal immigration is permitted to continue, we will continue to fall, until we reach rock bottom.

I really don’t care if this debate is hurting “poor illegals.” I care about poor U.S. citizens.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 02:06 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,092,812 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
I know that this is going to be WAY out there, but why can't people decide what they want for themselves? I choose to live in the country and commute. I don't care for city life. I like my four wheelers. It makes me happy living the way i do. Your conformist, one world, open borders agenda is scary to say the least. Why cant I live how I want? My life is very "sustainable."


So your plan is for us to cultivate a FUTURE middle-class generation of immigrants, at the expense of our CURRENT NATIVE citizens? You have lost your mind. I want MY children to do well. I want to work for MY children as well as other native children.

Why do we need to import and cultivate the next generation of ILLEGAL immigrants so that THEIR kids can have it good, when we are having a hard enough time just raising our own, native, kids??

Your out of touch.
Look, I love the country. Before suburbanization of the IE, I lived next to farms. However, things change. You make the best of it. If you like the country, move out to the country. I'm saying on a universal level we need to increase densities in CA. It makes economic and environmental sense.

My plan is to protect the middle class by putting an emphasis on things that can degrade them. Having an underclass of people can errode the middle class. How do we prevent that? Simple. By providing opportunities to those that are living in the US to enter into the middle class. We re-allocate budgets and give incentives to jobs to stay in the US.

We don't need to...and again I'm in favor of going after employers of illegal immigrants...but we should cultivate those that are already here. It will prevent our kids to having to pay for our shortsightedness.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 02:07 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,092,812 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Yes, that's a worthwhile suggestion....I should 'tear myself away from myself' and open my mind.....thanks for the example; I'll begin working on it.
You're welcome. Start soon.
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