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Old 05-24-2009, 10:15 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,717,133 times
Reputation: 1285

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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
No, they are not part of our society any more than the Nazis were part of Dutch society after they overran the Netherlands. Both foreign invaders and illegal aliens have entered into other countries and taken up residence unwanted and uninvited.

Really poor analogy. Nazis in the Netherlands were soldiers trying to take over. The illegal immigrants are workers wanting to obtain the American dream. They work, eat, sleep, etc. here. Hence are a part of our society.

The US is a sovereign nation and we have the right to decide who comes into our country. We are not the flophouse for the world. We have an immigration policy that allows for fair, controlled, limited immigration. Our immigration policy is designed to best serve the interests of the American people, just as Canada's immigration policy seeks to allow controlled immigration that will benefit Canadian citizens. If Mexico or other countries are dissatisfied with our immigration policies, that is unfortunate but not something anyone should lose sleep over.

Not really fair, nor obviously not controlled immigration. I'm simply stating that we do need to look at all aspects to this debate.

There is a very tangible difference between poor US citizens and legal residents and poor illegal immigrants. It is something called US citizenship and I do not believe I have ever encountered anyone who regards US citizenship as irrelevant as you do. It is truly unfortunate that we do not screen potential immigrants more carefully than we do.

Can you touch citzenship? Can you eat citizenship? Can you grap citizenship? It's not a tangible.
If you cannot touch it or eat it or grab it.........? Whiskey tango......

Enough nonsense.


Why is a raven like a writing desk???


 
Old 05-24-2009, 10:16 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,085,116 times
Reputation: 822
If you cannot touch it or eat it or grab it.........? Whiskey tango......

Just saying it's a concept. That's all it is.

Enough nonsense.


Why is a raven like a writing desk???

Geez...
 
Old 05-24-2009, 10:34 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,289,503 times
Reputation: 5906
Assuming there's anybody here besides the "I hate Mezkins 24/7" crowd, let's give this a try. Basically, I think we have a dirty little secret in this country that we try not to talk about, or else we talk around it by complaining about "illegals".

That problem is the fact that we have a huge underclass of poor, mostly unskilled & uneducated folks (and most of them white). Call 'em trailer trash, poor whites, "red-staters", whatever, but historically they've usually managed to get along, mostly through manufacturing & industrial jobs, and migrating to wherever the work was. But that type of work has largely disappeared now and been replaced by a service economy and agricultural labor, none of which interests this traditionally white underclass group, who have since become equally skilled at the 'mechanics' of unemployment, workmens comp., HUD assistance, welfare, SSI and the rest.

Meanwhile, immigrants have been showing up and slowly replacing them, and these newcomers are not only willing to do the menial jobs (and for less), they've also been acquiring a reputation among employers, landlords, and other businesses as being more dependable, less hassle, and generally having a better work ethic. So naturally there's now this huge resentment by alot of those folks that have always traditionally felt "entitled" to the low end of the economy & the job market, directed against all those who are now competing against them. In many ways, this is similar to the Irish complaining about the newer Italian immigrants (working for less) during the turn of the century.

So we can argue about "walls" & "the law" all day, but perhaps we should also remember that this country has prospered by incorporating the best from each wave of newcomers, and by rewarding those who have been willing to work hard, not by using "immigration" to artificially protect the "entitlement" privileges of those "citizens" who don't.
 
Old 05-24-2009, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,669,573 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Assuming there's anybody here besides the "I hate Mezkins 24/7" crowd, let's give this a try. Basically, I think we have a dirty little secret in this country that we try not to talk about, or else we talk around it by complaining about "illegals".

That problem is the fact that we have a huge underclass of poor, mostly unskilled & uneducated folks (and most of them white). Call 'em trailer trash, poor whites, "red-staters", whatever, but historically they've usually managed to get along, mostly through manufacturing & industrial jobs, and migrating to wherever the work was. But that type of work has largely disappeared now and been replaced by a service economy and agricultural labor, none of which interests this traditionally white underclass group, who have since become equally skilled at the 'mechanics' of unemployment, workmens comp., HUD assistance, welfare, SSI and the rest.

Meanwhile, immigrants have been showing up and slowly replacing them, and these newcomers are not only willing to do the menial jobs (and for less), they've also been acquiring a reputation among employers, landlords, and other businesses as being more dependable, less hassle, and generally having a better work ethic. So naturally there's now this huge resentment by alot of those folks that have always traditionally felt "entitled" to the low end of the economy & the job market, directed against all those who are now competing against them. In many ways, this is similar to the Irish complaining about the newer Italian immigrants (working for less) during the turn of the century.

So we can argue about "walls" & "the law" all day, but perhaps we should also remember that this country has prospered by incorporating the best from each wave of newcomers, and by rewarding those who have been willing to work hard, not by using "immigration" to artificially protect the "entitlement" privileges of those "citizens" who don't.
I call BS on the putative need for illegal aliens----------again, quit lumping legal immigrants with the above criminal losers.

And remember the birthrate among Americans as a group is at or below replacement rate-----------even with the 'hillbillies'.
 
Old 05-24-2009, 11:12 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,572 posts, read 18,000,111 times
Reputation: 5929
I would disagree a little with the above poster re the Illegals being more dependable or reliable as to their work ethics.

I lived in Mexico City and now in Baja and have seen their work ethics first hand. (not that good)

They work close to a 6 hr day for a daily wage or weekly pay. In the states they try to do the same thing at first but quickly find out that in the US you have to work 8 hrs a day for your hourly pay. Have talked to some that had come by my business before retiring to Baja. When they understood that I had lived and visited many of the towns and cities, they would acknowledge where they were from and we would laugh a little on mutual understanding.

They are no comparison to those arriving from Europe at the turn of the 20th Century. Then they were tailers...shoemakers...farmers...cabinet makers...all different kinds of tradesmen.

The quality of those tradesmen has long gone with no apprentices to take over the profession.

What we have with the Illegals are all uneducated with NO trade other then manual labor. All those with a trade stay in Mexico.

I use the term Illegals because that is what they are. They do not have any money or good excuse to come across the border so the Embassy refuses to issue them a Visa and they come over via other means.

The Us law does not want to be compared with the antics of the Gestapo who rounded up the Jews for deportation prior to WW11.

For this reason the illegals will continue to arrive however they choose knowing they will have a free ride eventually.

Using a program to verify all documents as to legality is the way to go. Being refused jobs over time the people will self deport.

Sad facts ...but true.

Steve
 
Old 05-25-2009, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,399,484 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Assuming there's anybody here besides the "I hate Mezkins 24/7" crowd, let's give this a try. Basically, I think we have a dirty little secret in this country that we try not to talk about, or else we talk around it by complaining about "illegals".

That problem is the fact that we have a huge underclass of poor, mostly unskilled & uneducated folks (and most of them white). Call 'em trailer trash, poor whites, "red-staters", whatever, but historically they've usually managed to get along, mostly through manufacturing & industrial jobs, and migrating to wherever the work was. But that type of work has largely disappeared now and been replaced by a service economy and agricultural labor, none of which interests this traditionally white underclass group, who have since become equally skilled at the 'mechanics' of unemployment, workmens comp., HUD assistance, welfare, SSI and the rest.

Meanwhile, immigrants have been showing up and slowly replacing them, and these newcomers are not only willing to do the menial jobs (and for less), they've also been acquiring a reputation among employers, landlords, and other businesses as being more dependable, less hassle, and generally having a better work ethic. So naturally there's now this huge resentment by alot of those folks that have always traditionally felt "entitled" to the low end of the economy & the job market, directed against all those who are now competing against them. In many ways, this is similar to the Irish complaining about the newer Italian immigrants (working for less) during the turn of the century.

So we can argue about "walls" & "the law" all day, but perhaps we should also remember that this country has prospered by incorporating the best from each wave of newcomers, and by rewarding those who have been willing to work hard, not by using "immigration" to artificially protect the "entitlement" privileges of those "citizens" who don't.
Ah Mateo. Has an illegal loving flavor to it, doesn't it? Apparently you're talking about how illegal border jumpers should be able to take jobs away from taxpaying AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!! You're actually saying that scumbag American employers should be able hire ILLEGAL border jumpers whenever they want? You seem to be promoting the entitlement privileges of scumbag employers of illegas to continue to employ illegal border jumpers.
 
Old 05-25-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: California
29,636 posts, read 32,001,609 times
Reputation: 24773
Quote:
I have been living in California for about 4 years and have noticed that the culture that is portrayed on television about California really does not exist anywhere except maybe Santa Monica or Malibu. Most of Southern California is a haven for illegal immigrants and their dirty, crime-ridden, gang-infested neighborhoods.
TV isnt' real.
 
Old 05-25-2009, 12:45 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,289,503 times
Reputation: 5906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
Ah Mateo. Has an illegal loving flavor to it, doesn't it? Apparently you're talking about how illegal border jumpers should be able to take jobs away from taxpaying AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!! You're actually saying that scumbag American employers should be able hire ILLEGAL border jumpers whenever they want? You seem to be promoting the entitlement privileges of scumbag employers of illegas to continue to employ illegal border jumpers.
Actually I'm 2nd gen. Italian there sport. Is that a problem, "Roguer" (which sounds kinda "french", if you know what I mean)?

So do you just want to trade insults, or are you trying to say that you're here to defend the entitlement rights of the lazy, welfare-collecting "scumbag" type of AMERICAN CITIZENS too?

Last edited by mateo45; 05-25-2009 at 12:54 AM..
 
Old 05-25-2009, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,399,484 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Actually I'm 2nd gen. Italian there sport. Is that a problem, "Roguer" (which sounds kinda "french", if you know what I mean)?

So do you just want to trade insults, or are you trying to say that you're here to defend the entitlement rights of the lazy, welfare-collecting "scumbag" type of AMERICAN CITIZENS too?
So are you an anchor? The entitlement rights of actual American citizens, whether they're lazy or not, are infinitely greater than illegal Mexican scabs who have NO right to be here! I'm not sure if you're defending scumbag employers who exploit cheap illegal scab labor over American citizens or are promoting the illegal Mexican scabs themselves.
 
Old 05-25-2009, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,176,196 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Assuming there's anybody here besides the "I hate Mezkins 24/7" crowd, let's give this a try. Basically, I think we have a dirty little secret in this country that we try not to talk about, or else we talk around it by complaining about "illegals".

That problem is the fact that we have a huge underclass of poor, mostly unskilled & uneducated folks (and most of them white). Call 'em trailer trash, poor whites, "red-staters", whatever, but historically they've usually managed to get along, mostly through manufacturing & industrial jobs, and migrating to wherever the work was. But that type of work has largely disappeared now and been replaced by a service economy and agricultural labor, none of which interests this traditionally white underclass group, who have since become equally skilled at the 'mechanics' of unemployment, workmens comp., HUD assistance, welfare, SSI and the rest.

Meanwhile, immigrants have been showing up and slowly replacing them, and these newcomers are not only willing to do the menial jobs (and for less), they've also been acquiring a reputation among employers, landlords, and other businesses as being more dependable, less hassle, and generally having a better work ethic. So naturally there's now this huge resentment by alot of those folks that have always traditionally felt "entitled" to the low end of the economy & the job market, directed against all those who are now competing against them. In many ways, this is similar to the Irish complaining about the newer Italian immigrants (working for less) during the turn of the century.

So we can argue about "walls" & "the law" all day, but perhaps we should also remember that this country has prospered by incorporating the best from each wave of newcomers, and by rewarding those who have been willing to work hard, not by using "immigration" to artificially protect the "entitlement" privileges of those "citizens" who don't.
I agree with this post.

I have many friends currently graduating, or who have graduated college in the last few years. And I don't think I have heard anyone complaining about illegals, specially the ones with out a high school or college diploma, taking their jobs.
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