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Well at least half of the cities in California is Spanish named. So Idk why your complaining about Spanish when you speak some words of it everyday without knowing.
You do realize that the United States cannot issue visas to every single poor person in the world who wants to work? In addition, there isn't a surplus of jobs currently available. Despite the fact that millions of poor people would love to work here, the fact of the matter is that granting visas to every single 'hard-working' poor person would overpopulate and financially burdensome the country. Is that acceptable for you?
So if I enter a country illegally/overstay my visa in country X, it is now the responsibility of X to provide me with free financial and social handouts despite breaking the laws?
So allowing as many people to enter illegally/overstay their visas is reasonable?
A trespasser who breaks into someone's house and squats in the basement is a resident of the house as well. Is the homeowner(s) responsible for financially & socially providing for the trespasser?
1). Not to the extent I feel you would like. I get the feeling of another Berlin Wall or DMZ
2). Of course, but I feel that there could be measures implemented. BTW I never stated we should do allow every single person in. I simply feel that immigration needs a more cooperative approach.
3). I never stated that it was fair in your scenario concerning X. It is matter of fact that denying people will create an underclass in which ultimately the youth will have to pick up the pieces.
4). Again you skirt the issue of "too much work and too many resources needed to implement a full on deportation"
5). A house and a nation are two different things. A house does not have an economy.
Well at least half of the cities in California is Spanish named. So Idk why your complaining about Spanish when you speak some words of it everyday without knowing.
And some names in Australia are Aborigine ones yet the language in common use there is English.
BTW: are you aware of the fact that Spanish culture is a White Euro one? Yet many Mestizos cling to a variant of it----------and, many of them also spout off about 'hating' us Anglos.
I just sense this by your personal views of multiculturalism. It denotes a sense of "doom". That somehow if we allow multiculturalism, it will create a barbaric state. It does not illustrate how culture changes and adapts with environment. I also sense this by others in the posts I mentioned. Why have a thread titles "Illegal Crime Wave" if not fear and doom? So it's not just you (actually you to a very small extent), but that side in general.
See, society is not constructed on absolutes. Our nation is not constructed on absolutes. If it were, then we would not have elections, debates etc. Values are not absolute. They are relative to a situation. Self determination is also not a rigid absolute. It too is relative to the situation. A "values" neutral society is what this nation originally was founded on. Our British forefathers were brought up to fear and love the king. Those values changed...We still became a self deterministic society. It is exactly because of being able to be flexible we thrived as a nation.
Responsibility, self determination, free flowing are simply relative terms. Because they are, we are able to adapt and thrive. Our laws are meant to be changeable with each situation to benefit the most number of people possible.
Look, I don't have all the answers, but the truth of the matter is nobody does. It is a complex situation that needs to be looked at from several different angles. While yes, some values are changeable, there are some that aren't. Some values are found across race, creed, religion, gender, etc. The value of equality. We should, as humans, try to strive for equality. If we can find a fair system that both sides agree on, then we will have truly solved the immigration debate. Untill then, let us not look upon our fellow man as a beast or burden, but rather as a brother. Brothers fight, yet find a solution for beneficial for all.
And if, while waiting for a system that "both sides (both sides of WHAT?) agree on", enough time goes by, (if it hasn't already), then we won't have to worry, because the situtation will have become beyond our ability to rescue. Some things don't lend themselves to 'negotiation'. We have multiple MILLIONS of people here illegally, the vast majority of whom are unlikely to ever "agree" that they're in the wrong. What do you propose to do to get them to understand that? Or do you simply suggest amnesty (HINT: if that's your plan, it's been tried repeatedly before. Did it 'work'? I don't know....does it look to YOU like it 'worked'?).
We are a society of laws, with little else to bind us together...."laws" are just about the ONLY thing we hold in common. Now you propose we "think about" whether or not to 'look the other way' as millions violate our laws....and you look for the day we'll "all agree" on this.
It won't happen. It's a HUGE, long-running scenario, spanning DECADES...and you've showed up way too late. Your 'agreements' and your 'consensus' just won't work. Illegality is illegality, call it wat you like.
I suppose we could reduce the problems associated with robbery, fraud, and drunk driving, too...if we could just get the robbers, the scam artists, and the drunks on 'the same page' as those they victimize. It MAY happen, but I don't suggest we wait to see. I think the situation demands action; later, if we want to 'discuss things', of course, we can ALWAYS re-institute robbery..OR illegal immigration. If it's 'OK', it will still be 'OK' 10 years from now...but waiting for a 'consensus' is just NOT a viable option. We've been there; done that.
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,846,083 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy
1). Not to the extent I feel you would like. I get the feeling of another Berlin Wall or DMZ
You do realize that the Berlin Wall constructed to restrict people from exiting not entering?
Anyone can apply to visit the United States legally on a visa. The only thing we anti-illegals don't want are people overstaying visas or streaming illegally across the border.
BTW, what would you consider to be adequate border security?
Quote:
2). Of course, but I feel that there could be measures implemented. BTW I never stated we should do allow every single person in. I simply feel that immigration needs a more cooperative approach.
And what measures would be included in this 'cooperative aproach'?
Quote:
3). I never stated that it was fair in your scenario concerning X. It is matter of fact that denying people will create an underclass in which ultimately the youth will have to pick up the pieces.
No, denying tax payer-funded financial and social services to illegals will send the message that their illegal presence will not be rewarded and thus they better go home and improve their own countries or apply for a visa legally. How would an illegal survive in a society in which he/she is denied all social & financial handouts afforded only to US citizens?
Quote:
4). Again you skirt the issue of "too much work and too many resources needed to implement a full on deportation"
An ICE & FBI-coordinated illegal alien-hunting operation could actually prove effective if conducted over the span of a few years, don't you think?
Quote:
5). A house and a nation are two different things. A house does not have an economy.
Both are controlled by people who are likely going to be unappreciative with the ever-increasing amount of uninvited residents every year.
You do realize that the Berlin Wall constructed to restrict people from exiting not entering?
Really? A wall is a wall...It's not as if a wall decides whether or not people can only exit or enter.
Anyone can apply to visit the United States legally on a visa. The only thing we anti-illegals don't want are people overstaying visas or streaming illegally across the border.
Not true, as the OP was about how California turned into one giant barrio.
BTW, what would you consider to be adequate border security?
You know, I don't know. Nobody really does. People that claim to have the answer on this forum are only kidding themselves.
And what measures would be included in this 'cooperative aproach'?
I know it doesn't involve a wall.
No, denying tax payer-funded financial and social services to illegals will send the message that their illegal presence will not be rewarded and thus they better go home and improve their own countries or apply for a visa legally. How would an illegal survive in a society in which he/she is denied all social & financial handouts afforded only to US citizens?
They just stay. They don't have money to participate as much and it becomes a bigger burden.
An ICE & FBI-coordinated illegal alien-hunting operation could actually prove effective if conducted over the span of a few years, don't you think?
No.
Both are controlled by people who are likely going to be unappreciative with the ever-increasing amount of uninvited residents every year.
What? Are you really trying to compare a house and a nation. My nephew even knows that you can't compare the two.
And if, while waiting for a system that "both sides (both sides of WHAT?) agree on", enough time goes by, (if it hasn't already), then we won't have to worry, because the situtation will have become beyond our ability to rescue. Some things don't lend themselves to 'negotiation'. We have multiple MILLIONS of people here illegally, the vast majority of whom are unlikely to ever "agree" that they're in the wrong. What do you propose to do to get them to understand that? Or do you simply suggest amnesty (HINT: if that's your plan, it's been tried repeatedly before. Did it 'work'? I don't know....does it look to YOU like it 'worked'?).
We are a society of laws, with little else to bind us together...."laws" are just about the ONLY thing we hold in common. Now you propose we "think about" whether or not to 'look the other way' as millions violate our laws....and you look for the day we'll "all agree" on this.
It won't happen. It's a HUGE, long-running scenario, spanning DECADES...and you've showed up way too late. Your 'agreements' and your 'consensus' just won't work. Illegality is illegality, call it wat you like.
I suppose we could reduce the problems associated with robbery, fraud, and drunk driving, too...if we could just get the robbers, the scam artists, and the drunks on 'the same page' as those they victimize. It MAY happen, but I don't suggest we wait to see. I think the situation demands action; later, if we want to 'discuss things', of course, we can ALWAYS re-institute robbery..OR illegal immigration. If it's 'OK', it will still be 'OK' 10 years from now...but waiting for a 'consensus' is just NOT a viable option. We've been there; done that.
Dude, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE DIFFERENT THAN FREAKIN' VIOLENT CRIMINALS!!!! THERE ARE DIFFERENT MOTIVATING FACTORS AT PLAY!!! NO WE DID NOT TRY TO HAVE A COHESIVE PLAN!!!! WE SIMPLY GRANTED AMNESTY WITHOUT ANY OTHER MEASURES!!!!
Dude, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE DIFFERENT THAN FREAKIN' VIOLENT CRIMINALS!!!! THERE ARE DIFFERENT MOTIVATING FACTORS AT PLAY!!! NO WE DID NOT TRY TO HAVE A COHESIVE PLAN!!!! WE SIMPLY GRANTED AMNESTY WITHOUT ANY OTHER MEASURES!!!!
While there are varying degrees of crime, it doesn't negate the fact that breaking and entering is a crime and ALL illegal aliens are criminals. Illegals wake up every single day anticipating the perpetration of their next criminal act that will allow them to remain in the US illegally.
While it may make you feel better to think you are not criminals, simply because you have not yet murdered, raped of maimed anyone pretty much confirms the fact that for millions of you, the lights are on, but nobody is home.
You CANNOT be serious.
You do realize that the Berlin Wall constructed to restrict people from exiting not entering?
Really? A wall is a wall...It's not as if a wall decides whether or not people can only exit or enter.
Anyone can apply to visit the United States legally on a visa. The only thing we anti-illegals don't want are people overstaying visas or streaming illegally across the border.
Not true, as the OP was about how California turned into one giant barrio.
BTW, what would you consider to be adequate border security?
You know, I don't know. Nobody really does. People that claim to have the answer on this forum are only kidding themselves.
And what measures would be included in this 'cooperative aproach'?
I know it doesn't involve a wall.
No, denying tax payer-funded financial and social services to illegals will send the message that their illegal presence will not be rewarded and thus they better go home and improve their own countries or apply for a visa legally. How would an illegal survive in a society in which he/she is denied all social & financial handouts afforded only to US citizens?
They just stay. They don't have money to participate as much and it becomes a bigger burden.
An ICE & FBI-coordinated illegal alien-hunting operation could actually prove effective if conducted over the span of a few years, don't you think?
No.
Both are controlled by people who are likely going to be unappreciative with the ever-increasing amount of uninvited residents every year.
What? Are you really trying to compare a house and a nation. My nephew even knows that you can't compare the two.
And what is so bad about a 'Berlin Wall' along our southern border or what Israel has to keep the illegal Palestinians out?
If Mexico does not like it: either they take back their illegal alien criminals or we annex that nation------------which will mean the end of Spanish, etc.
Dude, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE DIFFERENT THAN FREAKIN' VIOLENT CRIMINALS!!!! THERE ARE DIFFERENT MOTIVATING FACTORS AT PLAY!!! NO WE DID NOT TRY TO HAVE A COHESIVE PLAN!!!! WE SIMPLY GRANTED AMNESTY WITHOUT ANY OTHER MEASURES!!!!
that1guy:
Please accept the fact that the party is over and the 'guests' (illegal aliens) need to leave----------------or else.
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