U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-20-2009, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,582,143 times
Reputation: 267

Advertisements

Quote:
Sepulveda sees the mayor's proposal to require English on every sign as "sugar-coated prejudice," even though Lyons defends it as a safety measure to ensure first responders can locate emergencies. In response, her group called for an ordinance mandating all signs be in both Spanish and English.
http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/local.ssf?/base/news/1242567903212750.xml&coll=1

Don't speak English or know it well enough to read signs? Don't worry about learning it. Print it in TWO languages.

What part of assimilation and understanding English do some people not understand?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-20-2009, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Southern California
83 posts, read 120,405 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/local.ssf?/base/news/1242567903212750.xml&coll=1

Don't speak English or know it well enough to read signs? Don't worry about learning it. Print it in TWO languages.

What part of assimilation and understanding English do some people not understand?

Oh NOOOO reconquista, it would be too much of a burden for them to take some personal responsibility and educate themselves before coming to this country!

No, instead America should be forced to spend millions of dollars printing new signs and retraining all of their police and fire personnel so that the illegals can be more comfortable.

If the illegals have it their way, all of our signs in America will look like they do at Disneyland....9 feet long and 8 feet wide to include 38 languages.

There is nothing racist about requiring people to speak English. Much like there is nothing racist about requiring people to be able to read to have most jobs.

We should not have to "dumb down" our nation because of lazy, ignorant people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,645 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
Oh NOOOO reconquista, it would be too much of a burden for them to take some personal responsibility and educate themselves before coming to this country!

No, instead America should be forced to spend millions of dollars printing new signs and retraining all of their police and fire personnel so that the illegals can be more comfortable.

If the illegals have it their way, all of our signs in America will look like they do at Disneyland....9 feet long and 8 feet wide to include 38 languages.

There is nothing racist about requiring people to speak English. Much like there is nothing racist about requiring people to be able to read to have most jobs.

We should not have to "dumb down" our nation because of lazy, ignorant people.
How is putting signs in a different language having to "dumb down" a nation? Are you suggesting that people who do not speak English are dumber than people who do.

I would think that the reasoning behind this measure is the same as when you put a ramp for handicapped people or make the letters of the signs large and reflective, to increase accessibility, in this case to the information provided by the sign.

As much as I support people learning English because it's really useful, I don't see anything wrong with putting signs in multiple languages so as to increase the amount of people who can understand them.

Also, this measure could save lives by helping people follow the traffic rules. Or you think it would be better to have a larger amount of accidents because you don't want 9 feet long and 8 feet wide signs?

And back to your example, why do you think Disneyland put up those signs? I'm pretty sure their objective was not to "dumb down" Disneyland.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 10:40 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
How is putting signs in a different language having to "dumb down" a nation? Are you suggesting that people who do not speak English are dumber than people who do.

I would think that the reasoning behind this measure is the same as when you put a ramp for handicapped people or make the letters of the signs large and reflective, to increase accessibility, in this case to the information provided by the sign.

As much as I support people learning English because it's really useful, I don't see anything wrong with putting signs in multiple languages so as to increase the amount of people who can understand them.

Also, this measure could save lives by helping people follow the traffic rules. Or you think it would be better to have a larger amount of accidents because you don't want 9 feet long and 8 feet wide signs?

And back to your example, why do you think Disneyland put up those signs? I'm pretty sure their objective was not to "dumb down" Disneyland.
I suggest that moving into the US then refusing to learn the language spoken by the vast majority of it's citizens is indeed stupid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,645 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
I suggest that moving into the US then refusing to learn the language spoken by the vast majority of it's citizens is indeed stupid.
And I agree, but I don't think putting signs in multiple languages is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 11:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Without a united language in the US there cannot be a reasonable way to communicate. If S Cal had a huge earthquake today that took out electrical transmissions we would be so screwed and areas that are sealed off from the rest of society are going to be in bad shape. We'll have National Guard armed with weapons telling people to stop or put something down and the non-english speakers will have no idea what they are saying. You can't have a squad of people running around to do the job one person should be able to do and that's communicate with the public.

How many people in the National Guard speak English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese and Portugese? I'd guess probably a handful that can speak them all. That would be a very gifted person.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,645 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Without a united language in the US there cannot be a reasonable way to communicate. If S Cal had a huge earthquake today that took out electrical transmissions we would be so screwed and areas that are sealed off from the rest of society are going to be in bad shape. We'll have National Guard armed with weapons telling people to stop or put something down and the non-english speakers will have no idea what they are saying. You can't have a squad of people running around to do the job one person should be able to do and that's communicate with the public.

How many people in the National Guard speak English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese and Portugese? I'd guess probably a handful that can speak them all. That would be a very gifted person.
Again, I'm not advocating in any way not learning English, I think its really useful, to the point that I have gone out of my way to get even my grandparents into classes (rather unsuccessfully, but at least it will keep Alzheimer's away) . I completely see what you are saying that it will make it easier if the whole world would speak English. But, the reality is that in the US there is a large amount of people who do not speak English, let alone read it. Now, to use your same example, If the same area would have an earthquake today and the emergency exits, roads, and signs are only in English those people who can't read it will not know how to efficiently get out.

I think this is part of the reason a lot of the traffic signals are universal, traffic lights are red/yellow/green most places I have been, the stop sign is an octagon, and the yield sign an inverted triangle. They are made this way so they are easy to identify, even if you don't know what the word means.

Now other signs do not have the same standard shape so I think it is wise to put the signs on multiple languages, specially if a large amount of people who speak a common language are expected to be in that area.

In addition, for the extreme case of a disaster, most people default to their training, not raise to their education when under stress. Since they are more used to their native language, even if someone knows how to speak English, is more likely to successfully follow an order in their native language.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 12:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Again, I'm not advocating in any way not learning English, I think its really useful, to the point that I have gone out of my way to get even my grandparents into classes (rather unsuccessfully, but at least it will keep Alzheimer's away) . I completely see what you are saying that it will make it easier if the whole world would speak English. But, the reality is that in the US there is a large amount of people who do not speak English, let alone read it. Now, to use your same example, If the same area would have an earthquake today and the emergency exits, roads, and signs are only in English those people who can't read it will not know how to efficiently get out.

I think this is part of the reason a lot of the traffic signals are universal, traffic lights are red/yellow/green most places I have been, the stop sign is an octagon, and the yield sign an inverted triangle. They are made this way so they are easy to identify, even if you don't know what the word means.

Now other signs do not have the same standard shape so I think it is wise to put the signs on multiple languages, specially if a large amount of people who speak a common language are expected to be in that area.

In addition, for the extreme case of a disaster, most people default to their training, not raise to their education when under stress. Since they are more used to their native language, even if someone knows how to speak English, is more likely to successfully follow an order in their native language.
Well, I think the intent of signage is to aid tourists but I don't see any reason why everything has to be geared that way. When you call a business you shouldn't have to wade through a menu of press 1 or 2 to speak English. Can you imagine the cost to tax payers to have all signs in multiple languages? I can see Sea World or the air port doing it but it makes zero sense for tax payer money to used to print signs saying 'keep off the grass' in 20 languages at a local park.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,645 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Well, I think the intent of signage is to aid tourists but I don't see any reason why everything has to be geared that way. When you call a business you shouldn't have to wade through a menu of press 1 or 2 to speak English. Can you imagine the cost to tax payers to have all signs in multiple languages? I can see Sea World or the air port doing it but it makes zero sense for tax payer money to used to print signs saying 'keep off the grass' in 20 languages at a local park.
On the first highlight, Why not? businesses are catering to their customers, if their customers speak some obscure language and they will feel more comfortable speaking on their language then why not? I am pretty sure if the businesses did not benefit from having the option to speak in other language then there would be no option. Lately I have been pressing the option to speak with a person who speaks in spanish, even though I can communicate just fine in English I would rather talk to someone in Spanish for a while, and it secures the job of someone who can speak Spanish.

On the second highlight, I guess it depends on how much do you want to get the message to "Keep off the grass" across. If it's something trivial, like so you don't kill the grass so it looks pretty, then the taxpayers money might be better invested somewhere else. If it's because they are doing work underneath and it might cave in, then you might want to put it in as many languages as you think necessary in order to minimize the chance of someone stepping on the grass because they did not understand the sign.

If there is an area of town that is predominantly Vietnamese putting traffic signs with a translation in Vietnamese would make sense, since there is bound to be some people who do not read English and might not understand the sign. If there is a 0.01% Russians in a certain area then would not make much sense to put a Russian translation since the likelihood of a someone not understanding the sign because the Russian translation is not there.

An example of these can be some cities in Europe where signs are in multiple languages because people from multiple backgrounds live there. I have been to several cities that have multiple languages on their signs but the ones I can remember right now are Barcelona, with signs in Catalan and Spanish, and some cities in Greece, in Greek and in English.

The reason Disneyland has huge displays with multiple languages is because they expect people from all over the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 05:25 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
On the first highlight, Why not? businesses are catering to their customers, if their customers speak some obscure language and they will feel more comfortable speaking on their language then why not? I am pretty sure if the businesses did not benefit from having the option to speak in other language then there would be no option. Lately I have been pressing the option to speak with a person who speaks in spanish, even though I can communicate just fine in English I would rather talk to someone in Spanish for a while, and it secures the job of someone who can speak Spanish.

On the second highlight, I guess it depends on how much do you want to get the message to "Keep off the grass" across. If it's something trivial, like so you don't kill the grass so it looks pretty, then the taxpayers money might be better invested somewhere else. If it's because they are doing work underneath and it might cave in, then you might want to put it in as many languages as you think necessary in order to minimize the chance of someone stepping on the grass because they did not understand the sign.

If there is an area of town that is predominantly Vietnamese putting traffic signs with a translation in Vietnamese would make sense, since there is bound to be some people who do not read English and might not understand the sign. If there is a 0.01% Russians in a certain area then would not make much sense to put a Russian translation since the likelihood of a someone not understanding the sign because the Russian translation is not there.

An example of these can be some cities in Europe where signs are in multiple languages because people from multiple backgrounds live there. I have been to several cities that have multiple languages on their signs but the ones I can remember right now are Barcelona, with signs in Catalan and Spanish, and some cities in Greece, in Greek and in English.

The reason Disneyland has huge displays with multiple languages is because they expect people from all over the world.
First off I work in an industry highly regulated by the govt. If you knew how much Federal tax money is being tossed at Illegal Immigrants it would blow your lid. We are forced to offer them phone service for free or near free and other discounted rates on services just because they "claim" are poor. In most cases they don't even have to show a valid driver's license or SS#. They get free phone plus other free services that the tax payers pick up. These are the majority of the people that are calling in demanding a Spanish speaker to fix their 'free' services. It absolutely blows my mind that this happens.

They aren't supposed to be here yet they sure know how to sponge up the free services via claiming to be a professional victim. We can't even verify the claim forms to see if the amount is correct on how much they make! It's pathetic how much fraud there is here.

My Company gets partial reimbursement by State and Federal coffers. There are two things wrong here, the free service and the fact that tax payers are paying for services for people that should be in another Country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top