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Old 05-20-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,567 times
Reputation: 137

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
The report, called "Homeward Bound," said an analysis of U.S. census data suggests "the likely illegal immigrant population" may have dropped by 11 percent, or 1 million people, between August 2007 and May 2008.



Um, yes it does (you asked for a link, please read it) but here is another.
Dallas is My Home » Blog Archive » Illegal Immigrants Returning to Mexico in Record Numbers
All you have to do is google 'illegal immigration down 11 percent' and you'll get 50 topics on it.
I apologize I did miss it in the first link.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:27 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,083,197 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
I apologize I did miss it in the first link.
No worries, just wanna play fair.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Benicar,

Did you lose your house or job? I lost over 30% of my portfolio, but it seems to be rapidly recovering and I would estimate that it will make a full recovery in a year or so. It's just money, numbers in my back account yet my lifestyle took more of a hit from starting grad school than from the crisis.

Now, had I lost my house and have nowhere to life, or my car and have no transportation, or my job and be unable to find another. Then I think my outlook would be different.

You say having 20+ million illegal aliens is not a blessing, and I agree with you, but if the crisis would not have happened and Legalization would had happened through the year, then you would have traded the 20+ million illegal aliens for 20+ million legal immigrants. Now I consider trading 20+ million illegal aliens for 20+ million legal immigrants a blessing.

But since Legalization is a harder sell, and illegal aliens are not going anywhere then we get to keep our 20+ million illegal aliens, not a blessing as you said.

So then, you lost your thousands of dollars from your investment accounts, I lost 30% of my portfolio, and lots of people lost much more, and our 20+ million illegal aliens remain illegal. I fail to see the blessing.
It’s interesting that you have taken the moral high ground on this issue. Yet, you have no problem with the fact that millions of citizens of this country have lost their businesses, jobs, homes, cars -- and more importantly, their LIVES directly due to illegal immigration. So please spare me your hypocritical indignation.

Had we legalized the 20+ million illegal aliens, we would be in even more hot water. You do realize the vast majority of illegal aliens are uneducated and low-skilled, don’t you? How much do you think they would have contributed to our tax base, given their low earnings? They are also adept at playing every system we have, including claiming the maximum exemptions to avoid paying taxes. They also have a tendency to irresponsibly procreate; not to mention, their high dropout rate. Yes, we would have millions more to support with our tax dollars.

Illegal aliens are already a drain. I dare say, had we legalized them, not only would they have been more of a drain -- they would have brought millions of their family members into this country to enjoy the ride.

Of course, based on your post on another thread, and the fact that your parents had to “fix” their immigration status, I wouldn’t expect you to have a problem with illegal immigration. Moreover, you clearly believe this country is here for the benefit of immigrants -- they shouldn’t have to benefit us.

Perhaps you will realize the blessing once they are gone.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,567 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It’s interesting that you have taken the moral high ground on this issue. Yet, you have no problem with the fact that millions of citizens of this country have lost their businesses, jobs, homes, cars -- and more importantly, their LIVES directly due to illegal immigration. So please spare me your hypocritical indignation.
I am sorry but you guys do not get to monopolize the moral high ground, I get to sneak in from time to time. And hypocritical or not my stance is still the same. The illegal aliens are here, and since I don't think forcefully removing them is going to happen, and even though a million of them are returning to their countries ( I would like to see a breakdown of the returning illegal aliens countries, I wouldn't be surprised if the ones leaving are the ones that have an easy way back ), we still have a 20+ million illegal aliens, and we probably will still have a similar number after the crisis or after the economy recovers (since it's likely that the people that left and new people would come back in). So I still fail to see the blessing in disguise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Had we legalized the 20+ million illegal aliens, we would be in even more hot water. You do realize the vast majority of illegal aliens are uneducated and low-skilled, don’t you?
No I do not. Again I have not read any data regarding this issue, but I did posted not to long ago a link to an article where it cited the people who overstayed their visas as around ~40-45% of the illegal aliens. In order to get a travel visa to the U.S. you have to show that you have enough linking you to your country (ie. Real state, good job, university studies, money) in order to prove that you are not going to stay in the country. Personally, I used to live comfortably and It took 3 attempts to get a travel visa. ( At $40+ a pop, in a country where minimum wage was around $100/month) So I would this It would be fair to say that even if all the people who cross the border at 55% is uneducated and low skilled, it's incorrect to say that "the vast majority of illegal aliens" is also. I know of a large amount of people who held engineering/management positions now working for cleaning, construction, distribution companies because they are the ones that are more willing to hire them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
How much do you think they would have contributed to our tax base, given their low earnings? They are also adept at playing every system we have, including claiming the maximum exemptions to avoid paying taxes. They also have a tendency to irresponsibly procreate; not to mention, their high dropout rate. Yes, we would have millions more to support with our tax dollars.
Then, if these are your main concerns, would you support an immigration reform that would allow individuals, who have demonstrated their ability to contribute to society, to have a legal path to legalization?

About this though, I do have a tendency to bend the laws as much as I can, but that's something that I learned once here. Two of my favorite shows are "The Practice" and "Boston Legal", and the character that I enjoy the most is Alan Shore. So yeah I do tend to take bend the laws as much as I can, in things like keeping my car registered in Texas instead of Michigan so I can keep my front side windows tinted. (I do turn on my interior light and lower down my windows when pulled over. Some cops have noticed this and said thanks.) But I have not received, not even asked for any monetary support from the US. And for the last few years I have paid over $20K/year in income taxes, plus taxes for my house and car.

I would go as far as to say, myself and the people I know would generally look down upon an individual who goes to the government to ask for monetary support. I expect the government to set the infrastructure and provide the environment for me to succeed, but I will not ask for any monetary handouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post

Of course, based on your post on another thread, and the fact that your parents had to “fix” their immigration status, I wouldn’t expect you to have a problem with illegal immigration. Moreover, you clearly believe this country is here for the benefit of immigrants -- they shouldn’t have to benefit us.

Of course, I think I am but a compilation of my experiences, had I been in different circumstances my opinions towards many subjects would be different. In this case the fact that my parents and myself (to some point, I managed to keep myself in an immigration limbo until I found the opportunity to legalize my status) were illegal aliens strongly influences my stance towards illegal aliens.

But I think the second part is wrong, I do not believe that this country is here for the befit of immigrants, I think it's for the benefit of everyone, U.S. citizens, legal immigrants, illegal aliens and people in foreign countries. I am a person who tends to grow by growing the people around me, I tend to talk people into going back to school, give any advice I can and offer my suggestions and ideas as much as possible (even though sometimes are not welcomed, but there is nothing I can do about it). So in this issue is the same, the more the country grows the more I grow. As I mentioned it in a previous post I think of it as a symbiotic relationship.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Perhaps you will realize the blessing once they are gone.
Maybe I will, I guess only time will tell, but as things stand right now I highly doubt that the crisis's effect on legalization of illegal aliens is a blessing.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
I am sorry but you guys do not get to monopolize the moral high ground, I get to sneak in from time to time. And hypocritical or not my stance is still the same. The illegal aliens are here, and since I don't think forcefully removing them is going to happen, and even though a million of them are returning to their countries ( I would like to see a breakdown of the returning illegal aliens countries, I wouldn't be surprised if the ones leaving are the ones that have an easy way back ), we still have a 20+ million illegal aliens, and we probably will still have a similar number after the crisis or after the economy recovers (since it's likely that the people that left and new people would come back in). So I still fail to see the blessing in disguise.
Obviously, you and I have highly divergent principles. Hypocrisy is not an attribute to be admired. Yet, you admit to it without reservation, and dismiss it as though it’s as trivial as kicking a piece of paper off your shoe. Thus, you lost credibility from the beginning of your post, because a hypocrite is intellectually dishonest -- no better than a liar. It is also quite evident that you pride yourself on being able to circumvent the law; while I value integrity.

That being said, we do not have to tolerate millions of people who choose to violate our laws. They WILL leave, whether through self-deportation, or by force. Furthermore, our economic crisis will not magically end overnight; and 14+ million citizens will not wake up tomorrow and discover they are now employed. If you don’t believe it, stick around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
No I do not. Again I have not read any data regarding this issue, but I did posted not to long ago a link to an article where it cited the people who overstayed their visas as around ~40-45% of the illegal aliens. In order to get a travel visa to the U.S. you have to show that you have enough linking you to your country (ie. Real state, good job, university studies, money) in order to prove that you are not going to stay in the country. Personally, I used to live comfortably and It took 3 attempts to get a travel visa. ( At $40+ a pop, in a country where minimum wage was around $100/month) So I would this It would be fair to say that even if all the people who cross the border at 55% is uneducated and low skilled, it's incorrect to say that "the vast majority of illegal aliens" is also. I know of a large amount of people who held engineering/management positions now working for cleaning, construction, distribution companies because they are the ones that are more willing to hire them.
There are no accurate statistics on the number of illegal aliens currently invading our country, although the estimates range from 12-20+ million. Due to the sheer incompetence of our government, we also do not have accurate information on visa overstays, although the estimate is 30-40 percent -- an unacceptable number by any estimation. Thus, I stand by my statement that the vast majority of illegal aliens are uneducated and low-skilled, primarily the Mexican underclass.

Tourists visit the U.S. everyday, and I do not believe they must provide a financial statement proving solvency to qualify. Please substantiate your claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Then, if these are your main concerns, would you support an immigration reform that would allow individuals, who have demonstrated their ability to contribute to society, to have a legal path to legalization?

About this though, I do have a tendency to bend the laws as much as I can, but that's something that I learned once here. Two of my favorite shows are "The Practice" and "Boston Legal", and the character that I enjoy the most is Alan Shore. So yeah I do tend to take bend the laws as much as I can, in things like keeping my car registered in Texas instead of Michigan so I can keep my front side windows tinted. (I do turn on my interior light and lower down my windows when pulled over. Some cops have noticed this and said thanks.) But I have not received, not even asked for any monetary support from the US. And for the last few years I have paid over $20K/year in income taxes, plus taxes for my house and car.

I would go as far as to say, myself and the people I know would generally look down upon an individual who goes to the government to ask for monetary support. I expect the government to set the infrastructure and provide the environment for me to succeed, but I will not ask for any monetary handouts.
No, I would not support granting citizenship to ANY illegal alien. They have proven their unworthiness by thumbing their noses at our laws. How have they “demonstrated their ability to contribute to society?” Surely, you don’t mean by starting a business using fraudulent documents, and employing other illegal aliens; or by paying taxes using a stolen or fake SSN.

Again; by your own admission, integrity is not your strong suit. And you have the temerity to “look down upon” those who receive government assistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Of course, I think I am but a compilation of my experiences, had I been in different circumstances my opinions towards many subjects would be different. In this case the fact that my parents and myself (to some point, I managed to keep myself in an immigration limbo until I found the opportunity to legalize my status) were illegal aliens strongly influences my stance towards illegal aliens.

But I think the second part is wrong, I do not believe that this country is here for the befit of immigrants, I think it's for the benefit of everyone, U.S. citizens, legal immigrants, illegal aliens and people in foreign countries. I am a person who tends to grow by growing the people around me, I tend to talk people into going back to school, give any advice I can and offer my suggestions and ideas as much as possible (even though sometimes are not welcomed, but there is nothing I can do about it). So in this issue is the same, the more the country grows the more I grow. As I mentioned it in a previous post I think of it as a symbiotic relationship.
You kept yourself in immigration limbo until you found the opportunity to legalize your status. Translation: You were, and probably still are, an illegal alien. I’m curious, how did you “find the opportunity” to legalize your status? Also, given your mentoring skills, I would think you would have “found an opportunity” for your fellow illegals. Since you have proven your predilection for deception, I don’t expect an honest answer.

A symbiotic relationship? Surely you jest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Maybe I will, I guess only time will tell, but as things stand right now I highly doubt that the crisis's effect on legalization of illegal aliens is a blessing.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Clearly, you have illustrated why we DON’T need to grant citizenship to illegal aliens. Thank you.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,567 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Obviously, you and I have highly divergent principles. Hypocrisy is not an attribute to be admired. Yet, you admit to it without reservation, and dismiss it as though it’s as trivial as kicking a piece of paper off your shoe. Thus, you lost credibility from the beginning of your post, because a hypocrite is intellectually dishonest -- no better than a liar. It is also quite evident that you pride yourself on being able to circumvent the law; while I value integrity.
"Ad hominem", It does not suit you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
That being said, we do not have to tolerate millions of people who choose to violate our laws. They WILL leave, whether through self-deportation, or by force.
This might be the case, again, I highly doubt it. I think the people in charge are benefiting from this so it will continue until the risks outweigh their benefit. If the resentment is growing as you say it might get to a point where the risk is great enough, but for then I would think that the people in charge would have done something to protect their interests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Furthermore, our economic crisis will not magically end overnight; and 14+ million citizens will not wake up tomorrow and discover they are now employed. If you don’t believe it, stick around.
Magic has nothing to do with it, and I never said it would be overnight. But I do monitor my investments and I see them bouncing back up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
There are no accurate statistics on the number of illegal aliens currently invading our country, although the estimates range from 12-20+ million. Due to the sheer incompetence of our government, we also do not have accurate information on visa overstays, although the estimate is 30-40 percent -- an unacceptable number by any estimation. Thus, I stand by my statement that the vast majority of illegal aliens are uneducated and low-skilled, primarily the Mexican underclass.

Tourists visit the U.S. everyday, and I do not believe they must provide a financial statement proving solvency to qualify. Please substantiate your claim.
"Qualifying for a Visa
Applicants for visitor visas must show that they qualify under provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Applicants must demonstrate that they are properly classifiable as visitors under U.S. law.

The presumption in the law is that every visitor visa applicant is an intending immigrant. Therefore, applicants for visitor visas must overcome this presumption by demonstrating that:
  • The purpose of their trip is to enter the U.S. for business, pleasure, or medical treatment;
  • That they plan to remain for a specific, limited period;
  • Evidence of funds to cover expenses in the United States;
  • Evidence of compelling social and economic ties abroad; and
  • That they have a residence outside the U.S. as well as other binding ties that will insure their return abroad at the end of the visit."
And the US embassies do not take these requirements lightly.
Visitor Visas Business and Pleasure


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, I would not support granting citizenship to ANY illegal alien. They have proven their unworthiness by thumbing their noses at our laws. How have they “demonstrated their ability to contribute to society?” Surely, you don’t mean by starting a business using fraudulent documents, and employing other illegal aliens; or by paying taxes using a stolen or fake SSN.
You do not need to be a U.S. citizen or resident to start a business, you can use your own documentation even as an illegal alien to start a business of your own, and you can pay taxes using a Tax Identification Numbers, after all the IRS does not ask you immigration status when paying your taxes, only for the refunds. And even then their definition of U.S. resident is someone who has resided in the U.S. without taking into account their legal status.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Again; by your own admission, integrity is not your strong suit. And you have the temerity to “look down upon” those who receive government assistance.
Ad Hominem again, and I do look down upon those who receive government assistance, as I said except some very exceptional cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You kept yourself in immigration limbo until you found the opportunity to legalize your status. Translation: You were, and probably still are, an illegal alien. I’m curious, how did you “find the opportunity” to legalize your status? Also, given your mentoring skills, I would think you would have “found an opportunity” for your fellow illegals. Since you have proven your predilection for deception, I don’t expect an honest answer.
Your translation is wrong. Since i came from a rather well educated family learning a little about immigration laws was not too hard. And eventhough I entered with a tourist visa, which I manage to legally extend to a little over a year, which get me a chance to to find a company to sponsor me. They sponsored me mainly due to my computer skills and my ability to communicate in English and Spanish, and also thanks to some really good friends (US citizens) who were willing to put in a good word for me.

And my predilection is for bending the law while staying within the law, not deception but having an advantadge due to knowing the law. You guys make the rules, I have merely played within the rules that you made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
A symbiotic relationship? Surely you jest.
Comming from the fact that my balance sheet of taxes paid vs. services received weights heavily in my favor I would say yes, a symbiotic relationship. My taxes have probably supported many U.S. citizens who do take on assistance from the government.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:01 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If it will result in ridding our country of illegal aliens, it is indeed a blessing. Perhaps then, citizens of this country won’t have to compete against illegals depressing wages, and legitimate businesses can remain open. Having 20+ million illegal aliens living in this country is certainly no blessing. The greed of these unscrupulous employers is a major factor in our current economic crisis.

BTW, yes, I have lost thousands.

It's not that it's a blessing -- this has a lot to do with cause and effect.

We cannot be the only economy of the world that must export all our jobs and import all the people of the world. Our economy cannnot support us and everyone else.

It would be far better to build up many economies. Now ours is sinking under all the weight.

That whole housing bubble was based on limitless levels of immigration, much of it illegal so the developers could profit from the cheap labor they brought in to build those subdivisions every where. Americans never needed all those millions new expensive houses that were built.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:14 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
You say having 20+ million illegal aliens is not a blessing, and I agree with you, but if the crisis would not have happened and Legalization would had happened through the year, then you would have traded the 20+ million illegal aliens for 20+ million legal immigrants. Now I consider trading 20+ million illegal aliens for 20+ million legal immigrants a blessing.
Rewarding people for breaking the law would be a very bad thing to do. That will only bring in 40 million more illegals figuring they would soon be handed citizenship papers just for breaking our laws.

It wouldn't be 20 million illegals to be legalized. There would be a big raging flood of people coming over the border to get in on it. There would be people who had stolen social security numbers and other stolen identification papers they used years ago. There would be massive fraud -- millions of people claiming they had been here all along working illegally. The big amnesty of the 1980's proved that.

The politicians weren't just promising legalization, they were promising that once legal, these people could start bringing in their many relatives because as we all well know, "family reunification" can only happen in the USA.

There would be no way to eliminate fraud because how do you determine which illegal stole someone's identity to work here? What if 20 people claimed they were working illegally with a social security number -- how can you ever prove which really did?

Newly legalized would no longer be able to work illegally. And no employer of illegals is going to want to pay the high wages and benefits that citizens and legal residents require. They'd have to bring in a whole new batch of illegals and the former illegals would be out of work -- collecting welfare.

All along, there should have been jobs programs, recruitment done in our own impoverished areas. Instead of building prisons, there should have been more an effort made to salvage inner city youth and get them working. Chronic unemployment among some Americans was a problem this entire time.

It was all about greed. Now wait and see what happens if government handouts like food stamps and free medical care to illegals should get any cuts -- because a whole lot of illegals aren't here to work but to live off welfare programs. So far they of course don't have any intention of leaving.
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
"Ad hominem", It does not suit you.
Ad hominem? I think not. Spin it anyway you choose; you have already exposed yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
This might be the case, again, I highly doubt it. I think the people in charge are benefiting from this so it will continue until the risks outweigh their benefit. If the resentment is growing as you say it might get to a point where the risk is great enough, but for then I would think that the people in charge would have done something to protect their interests.
Do you actually believe this country has infinite resources to continue supporting millions of non-taxpayers and their offspring? If so, you are even more naive than I imagined. I assure you, they will leave. Are you afraid YOU will have to leave, along with many of your relatives and friends? If so, I am certain your vast expertise and your portfolio will follow you back home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Magic has nothing to do with it, and I never said it would be overnight. But I do monitor my investments and I see them bouncing back up.
Your investments “bouncing back up” does not equate to 14+ million citizens finding jobs. If so, they would have already been rehired.

Quote:
"Qualifying for a Visa
Applicants for visitor visas must show that they qualify under provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Applicants must demonstrate that they are properly classifiable as visitors under U.S. law.

The presumption in the law is that every visitor visa applicant is an intending immigrant. Therefore, applicants for visitor visas must overcome this presumption by demonstrating that:
  • The purpose of their trip is to enter the U.S. for business, pleasure, or medical treatment;
  • That they plan to remain for a specific, limited period;
  • Evidence of funds to cover expenses in the United States;
  • Evidence of compelling social and economic ties abroad; and
  • That they have a residence outside the U.S. as well as other binding ties that will insure their return abroad at the end of the visit."
Visitor Visas Business and Pleasure

A piece of cake. Let’s examine these requirements.

It isn’t difficult to make hotel reservations (which you have no intentions of honoring), or have a friend or relative living in the U.S. vouch for your “pleasure” trip.

A simple affirmation of a 2-week trip would suffice.

If illegal aliens can pay coyotes $5,000 - $10,000 per trip, they can certainly produce those funds as evidence of their ability to “cover their expenses” during their visit.

Most illegal aliens have a residence, families, and other “compelling social or economic ties” they leave to come here. Why do you think they send billions back home?

Same as above; which obviously means squat, or we wouldn’t have so many visa overstays. See, it’s not that hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
And the US embassies do not take these requirements lightly.
Yes, as evidenced by their foolproof monitoring procedures. They are obviously taking something “lightly” or we wouldn’t have millions of visa overstays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
You do not need to be a U.S. citizen or resident to start a business, you can use your own documentation even as an illegal alien to start a business of your own, and you can pay taxes using a Tax Identification Numbers, after all the IRS does not ask you immigration status when paying your taxes, only for the refunds. And even then their definition of U.S. resident is someone who has resided in the U.S. without taking into account their legal status.
I am well aware of the fact that the IRS will issue an ITIN to illegal aliens for tax purposes. However, by no means are they considered “residents” of this country. According to the USCIS there are only three categories, and illegal aliens are not included.

Quote:
Resident Alien

Applies to non-U.S. citizens currently residing in the United States. The term is applied in three different manners; please see Permanent Resident, Conditional Resident, and Returning Resident.

Permanent Resident

Any person not a citizen of the United States who is residing in the U.S. under legally recognized and lawfully recorded permanent residence as an immigrant. Also known as "Permanent Resident Alien", "Lawful Permanent Resident," "Resident Alien Permit Holder," and "Green Card Holder."

Conditional Resident

Any alien granted permanent resident status on a conditional basis (e.g., a spouse of a U.S. citizen; an immigrant investor), who is required to petition for the removal of the set conditions before the second anniversary of the approval of his or her conditional status.

Returning Resident

Any Lawful Permanent Resident who has been outside the United States and is returning to the U.S. Also defined as a "special immigrant." If outside of the U.S. for more than 180 days, must apply for readmission to the U.S. If outside of the U.S. for more than one year and is returning to his or her permanent residence in the United States, usually must have a re-entry documentation from USCIS or an immigrant visa from the Department of State
.

USCIS - Resident Alien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Ad Hominem again, and I do look down upon those who receive government assistance, as I said except some very exceptional cases.
You feel justified in “looking down upon” those receiving government assistant. Does that include the millions of illegal aliens who cross our borders to give birth and receive WIC and welfare at the taxpayers’ expense? Does it include the millions of illegal alien children who attend our schools and receive a free breakfast and lunch, as well as ESL classes at the taxpayers’ expense? Does it include the millions of illegal aliens who are living in subsidized housing at the taxpayers’ expense? Does it include the millions of illegal aliens who receive medical treatment in our ERs at taxpayers’ expense? Does it include the millions of illegal alien criminals who are apprehended and receive a legal defense, and are incarcerated in our prisons at taxpayers’ expense?

Government assistance comes in many forms, all of which are benefiting illegal aliens and their exploited U.S.-born children. Do they receive your disdain, or is your condescension and contempt reserved for U.S. citizens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Your translation is wrong. Since i came from a rather well educated family learning a little about immigration laws was not too hard. And eventhough I entered with a tourist visa, which I manage to legally extend to a little over a year, which get me a chance to to find a company to sponsor me. They sponsored me mainly due to my computer skills and my ability to communicate in English and Spanish, and also thanks to some really good friends (US citizens) who were willing to put in a good word for me.
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
And my predilection is for bending the law while staying within the law, not deception but having an advantadge due to knowing the law. You guys make the rules, I have merely played within the rules that you made.
Bending the law, while staying within the law? Now that’s a new one. I guess most illegal aliens consider themselves simply “bending the law.” If you are a “citizen” don’t you also “make the rules?” Shouldn’t it be “we make the rules” rather than “you guys make the rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Comming from the fact that my balance sheet of taxes paid vs. services received weights heavily in my favor I would say yes, a symbiotic relationship. My taxes have probably supported many U.S. citizens who do take on assistance from the government.
You claim to have paid $20,000 in the last “few years." Well whoopty doo. Do the math, and you won’t feel so smug.


It’s been fun, but I’m through playing tit for tat. Gotta run.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
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Kellem:

Are you even living in the USA legally? That is a direct Y/N question
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