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Old 05-23-2009, 03:11 PM
 
223 posts, read 254,036 times
Reputation: 33

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
You are not at all practical. The USA simply cannot take in the entire world's population. There should be some immigration but immigration must be orderly, fair, and so legal.

The border free-for-all hurts both Americans and legal immigrants alike. You want no limitation on how many boat loads of ultra cheap workers some greedy employer might like to bring in. Or maybe you really believe that we can bring in all the impoverished throughout all of Asia, Africa, Europe and South America that might like to come and live off welfare here. It's totally unfeasible what you propose.
Who the f--- is talking about open borders?
Your responses are increasingly annoying, because you don't seem to have a grip on things being discussed, and don't have many coherent answers. You're not doing much besides finger-pointing and grandstanding, acting like you know what you are talking about.

 
Old 05-23-2009, 03:27 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
Now, that's not a very good metaphor for a kid being brought to this country as small child, and growing up only knowing this country, now is it? Back to the drawing board?
Like the myth that if brought back to Mexico they won't be able to communicate with anyone yet they somehow can communicate with their parents who speak only Spanish. A complete and utter lie. It's rather entertaining though to see the pro-Illegals keep dragging that 'tired horse' back out to trot around a bit.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 03:31 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
Who the f--- is talking about open borders?
Your responses are increasingly annoying, because you don't seem to have a grip on things being discussed, and don't have many coherent answers. You're not doing much besides finger-pointing and grandstanding, acting like you know what you are talking about.
Look..you're making some good points..(along with the 'not-so-good' ones) and I acknowledge that. You've brought up some very reasonable things, and you've had the honesty to admit that perhaps if a huge number of MILLIONS of illegals did NOT share your ethnicity, perhaps you'd feel 'differently' about them than the REAL-LIFE illegals we now have. For that, I give you credit as a 'worthy opponent'.

However, in regard to the above, "who is talking about open borders", you're making a stretch there. Of COURSE almost no one is actually talking about "open borders"...even the most passionate supporter of illegals..even my OWN Catholic Church..couldn't quite make a 'pitch' for open borders, and retain ANY credibility at ALL..but ask yourself THIS...what is YOUR reaction...OR the reaction of many on the forum....OR the reaction of the Church....when proposals are made..(ANY proposals)..to CLOSE the border? Many times, it's a FIRESTORM of outrage and disgust.

So while few people actually openly condone "open borders", you can bet your paycheck that a whole LOT of them oppose ANY attempt, however humane, to "close" them. Why do people "howl" at the mention of a "wall" along the border (people INCLUDING most of the Mexican government)? Is it because they want to spare us the 'expense'? I think not; I think it's because a WALL would REALLY 'close' the border....and they want it to remain on the 'honor system'...meaning that people can elect to sneak across, or NOT, according to their own conscience. Sorry, but this pretty much fits the description of an 'open border'.

Something to think about...
 
Old 05-23-2009, 03:44 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
I don't believe in moving piecemeal when it comes to immigration reform. The polls are clearly showing that most americans clearly support a comprehensive approach to solving this illegal immigration problem. You can deny it all you want but i guess we will just have to wait and see what the future holds. Thank God your anti-hispanic/immigrant views are held by only a tiny minority in this country.
Your delusional pretense of those of us against illegal immigration being racist against hispanics and legal immigrants is so LaRaza circa 2007. No matter how many times you click your heels and repeat you are an American citizen, it doesn't make it so and the passage of the Nightmare Act will never be supported by the majority of Americans. We have millions of our own citizens who can't afford college and are not eligible to receive instate tuition no matter where they "happen to reside" even though they are citizens of the US. Do you really think we are going to vote to allow illegal alien children turned adult criminals to overrun the number of Americans who are able to attend college?

I have no doubt that you have very little, if any, contact with average Americans. Otherwise you would realize that the majority of us do NOT support "comprehensive" immigration reform. Even Obama and Napolitano have acknowledged that fact publicly.

Quote:
On the thorniest of political issues, President Obama has embraced the enforcement-first position on immigration that he criticized during last year's presidential campaign, and he now says he can't move forward with the type of comprehensive bill he wants until voters are convinced that the borders can be enforced. Having already backed off his pledge to have an immigration bill this year, Mr. Obama boosted his commitment to enforcement in the budget released Thursday. The spending blueprint calls for extra money to build an employee-verification system and to pay for more personnel and equipment to patrol the border.
This security-first stance is not unlike that of President George W. Bush, Bush Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain, who said their immigration bill failed in 2007 because voters didn't trust the government to be serious about enforcement.
"If the American people don't feel like you can secure the borders," Mr. Obama said at his press conference last week, "then it's hard to strike a deal that would get people out of the shadows and on a pathway to citizenship who are already here, because the attitude of the average American is going to be, 'Well, you're just going to have hundreds of thousands of more coming in each year.'

"http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/08/obama-enforcement-first-for-immigration/
The above certainly doesn't sound like he's gearing up to pass another amnesty. It took decades for this mess to unfold and it is going to take decades or perhaps longer to rid America of the millions of criminals that have invaded us. If Americans supported any form of amnesty "comprehensive" or otherwise, it would not have failed passage 3 consecutive times in the last 4 years. If it failed 3 times when the economy was humming along it certainly isn't going to pass now or anytime in the near future.

No American in his or her right mind supports the premise that illegal aliens who were brought here as children turned criminal adults should be rewarded citizenship. By virtue of learning the criminal tricks of the trade firmly embedded in you from infancy, (i.e. skirting laws to remain here illegally, lying to your peers and the police about your status, driving without licenses, DUI, wishing death upon those in congress who disagree with you, etc.) the majority of Americans simply view you as the second generational crime wave. Managing to skirt the laws and attending college doesn't erase the reality of the multitude of criminal acts committed by illegal aliens (in college or anywhere else in the US) demanding amnesty as a reward for their crimes.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 05-23-2009 at 04:55 PM..
 
Old 05-23-2009, 04:09 PM
 
223 posts, read 254,036 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Look..you're making some good points..(along with the 'not-so-good' ones) and I acknowledge that. You've brought up some very reasonable things, and you've had the honesty to admit that perhaps if a huge number of MILLIONS of illegals did NOT share your ethnicity, perhaps you'd feel 'differently' about them than the REAL-LIFE illegals we now have. For that, I give you credit as a 'worthy opponent'.
.
Whoa whoa whoa.
I didn't say that. I said that's a possibility that I seriously doubt. I pointed out that there are a whole lot of people that aren't Hispanic that are pro-immigration reform. I said while theres the possibility that there are people who don't feel sympathetic to people they see as foreign and weird and scary, I would like to think I'd be like one of those many Whites, Blacks, Asians that are willing to stand up for those who don't share an ethnicity with them.
Principles and compassion vs. "ethnic solidarity" someone forced on me as my "motive".
Had to clarify that, because I feel you subtly twisted what I said.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 04:10 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
Whoa whoa whoa.
I didn't say that. I said that's a possibility that I seriously doubt. I pointed out that there are a whole lot of people that aren't Hispanic that are pro-immigration reform. I said while theres the possibility that there are people who don't feel sympathetic to people they see as foreign and weird and scary, I would like to think I'd be like one of those many Whites, Blacks, Asians that are willing to fighting for those who don't share an ethnicity with them.
Had to clarify that, because I feel you subtly twisted what I said.
My mistake...

I will say, though, that it's a pretty good bet that if we had 20 million illegal Africans...or 20 million illegal Chinese...or 20 million illegal Swedes (assuming that there WERE 20 million Swedes on earth), the reaction would be quite different...both the reaction of the illegals themselves, the reaction of those who CURRENTLY support illegals; the reaction of our lawmakers; the reaction of Hispanic advocacy groups; and the reaction of the general American public as a whole. HOW would these differences be shown? I don't know...but I can ASSURE you it would be seen differently than what's now happening.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
See, you would be making a point, if the only people supporting immigration reform were all Hispanic. But that is simply not the case. What explanation to have you for all the American born Hispanics, Whites, Blacks, Asians, etc who are just as passionate about immigration reform? Would you be so sure of yourself(based on people's race/ethnicity), that this is nothing more than "an issue of ethnic solidarity"?
I have never stated that only Hispanics support illegal immigration. What I DID say is that you and many other Hispanics, support illegal immigration primarily due to shared ethnicity with the vast majority of illegal aliens. You may deny it, but if you were to be perfectly honest with yourself, you would realize the validity of my statement.

Yes, there are ‘others’ who support illegal immigration for various reasons. Some are sheeple who blindly follow the orders of those they hold in high esteem. Some are bleeding hearts with a compelling, and oftentimes pathological need to root for the so-called underdog. Some are illegal alien peddlers who profit from cheap illegal labor. Some are New World Order advocates who believe there should be no borders. Some are anti-American, and support anything they feel will lead to our destruction. Some have family and friends who are illegal aliens. Some are afraid of being considered “racist” if they oppose.

No, Hispanics are not the only supporters of illegal immigration. However, in my opinion, ethnicity is the impetus for most Hispanics. Why won’t you admit it?
 
Old 05-23-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Your delusional pretense of those of us against illegal immigration being racist against hispanics and legal immigrants is so LaRaza circa 2007. No matter how many times you click your heels and repeat you are an American citizen, it doesn't make it so and the passage of the Nightmare Act will never be supported by the majority of Americans. We have millions of our own citizens who can't afford college and are not eligible to receive instate tuition no matter where they "happen to reside" even though they are citizens of the US. Do you really think we are going to vote to allow illegal alien children turned adult criminals to overrun the number of Americans who are able to attend college?

I have no doubt that you have very little, if any, contact with average Americans. Otherwise you would realize that the majority of us do NOT support "comprehensive" immigration reform. Even Obama and Napolitano have acknowledged that fact publicly.

The above certainly doesn't sound like he's gearing up to pass another amnesty. It took decades for this mess to unfold and it is going to take decades or perhaps longer to rid America of the millions of criminals that have invaded us. If Americans supported any form of amnesty "comprehensive" or otherwise, it would not have failed passage 3 consecutive times in the last 4 years. Just think if it failed 3 times when the economy was humming along it certainly isn't going to pass now or anytime in the near future.

No American in his or her right mind supports the premise that illegal aliens who were brought here as children who have now become criminal adults should be rewarded citizenship. By virtue of learning the criminal tricks of the trade firmly embedded in you from infancy, (i.e. skirting laws to remain here illegally, lying to your peers and the police about your status, driving without licenses, DUI, wishing death upon those in congress who disagree with you, etc.) the majority of Americans simply view you as the second generational crime wave. Managing to skirt the laws and attending college doesn't erase the reality of the multitude of criminal acts committed by illegal aliens in order to remain in this country illegally.
Tell it like it is!
 
Old 05-23-2009, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
So while few people actually openly condone "open borders", you can bet your paycheck that a whole LOT of them oppose ANY attempt, however humane, to "close" them. Why do people "howl" at the mention of a "wall" along the border (people INCLUDING most of the Mexican government)? Is it because they want to spare us the 'expense'? I think not; I think it's because a WALL would REALLY 'close' the border....and they want it to remain on the 'honor system'...meaning that people can elect to sneak across, or NOT, according to their own conscience. Sorry, but this pretty much fits the description of an 'open border'.

Something to think about...
The absolute truth!
 
Old 05-23-2009, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
Now, that's not a very good metaphor for a kid being brought to this country as small child, and growing up only knowing this country, now is it? Back to the drawing board?
That is not my problem. The blame lies with said minor child's illegal alien's parents-------------not American society/laws/culture.
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