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Old 05-24-2009, 09:12 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,931,298 times
Reputation: 1094

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Recent shooting death sparks debate over immigration policies in Idaho and Washington -- and nationwide

An unexpected issue has sprung up since the pre-dawn hours of May 19, when a driver pulled up beside Timothy Wolfe as he walked in downtown Coeur d'Alene, pointed a pistol at the 21-year-old's face and delivered a fatal shot.

The issue is the shooter, Juan Carlos Villanueva of Honduras, crossed into the country illegally through El Paso, Texas, in 2006 -- a fact determined by federal immigration agents last week.

************************

To Sen. Mike Jorgenson, R-Hayden Lake, the tragedy is the outcome of poor immigration policy, not just in Idaho but also Washington, where the Honduran obtained a driver's license because the state doesn't require proof of legal presence at the DMV.

"Immigration's OK -- illegal immigration is not," Jorgenson said this week. "The really sad part of this tragedy is this is one of the classic routes that illegals take to circumvent the law, on top of committing a crime like that (the shooting)."



The issue of Immigration - Coeur d'Alene Press Newspaper - Local and National News - Kootenai County, Idaho (http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2009/05/24/news/news02.txt - broken link)

Another unnecessary and tragic death of an American at the hands of an illegal alien who should not have been here, let alone with permission to drive.

Tragically, with every murder and various other crimes they commit daily, illegal aliens continue to make the case as to why the majority of Americans are against any form of amnesty.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 05-24-2009 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 05-24-2009, 10:34 AM
 
254 posts, read 418,624 times
Reputation: 229
These illegals just keep scratching away at our patience. One of these days we'll toss them out of our country and the corrupt politicians out of office.
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:08 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,729,614 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Monica Schurtman, associate professor of law at the University of Idaho and supervisor of the Immigration Law Clinic there, wasn't sure what to think about those ideas.

"I think it's a really, really complicated situation, and I don't think there's an easy answer," Schurtman said.
Seems to me I've heard that somewhere before.

This excuse seems to be coming into vogue lately. Illegal immigration is soooo complex and multifaceted and arbitrary that you, even though you may be a neurosurgeon or nuclear physicist, CANNOT POSSIBLY wrap your feeble mind around it. NO ONE knows the answers except those in favor of illegal aliens and whenever you present us with a valid reason why it should not be tolerated, WE are going to tell YOU that you have not considered all the aspects of the situation or something like that. Remember:

Quote:
Life is not as black and white as many on this board assume


Quote:
Those who do enter the country illegally do so because of desperate circumstances like persecution and extreme poverty, she said.

For some, obtaining visas is unrealistic.

This is especially common in countries issued a limited number of family-based visas per year from the U.S.

"Those visas are subject to years and years of backlog -- for example, in Mexico the wait is 15 years," she said.
That is how US immigration law works. Deal with it. Our country was never intended to serve as the flophouse for the world.

Quote:
"All the money, every cent they send home to their families," he said of the somber young men beside him in ragged overalls and boots.

All of them have stories of pregnant wives and lots of little ones, he said.
Who the he11's fault is that? And I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:25 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,931,298 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Seems to me I've heard that somewhere before.

This excuse seems to be coming into vogue lately. Illegal immigration is soooo complex and multifaceted and arbitrary that you, even though you may be a neurosurgeon or nuclear physicist, CANNOT POSSIBLY wrap your feeble mind around it. NO ONE knows the answers except those in favor of illegal aliens and whenever you present us with a valid reason why it should not be tolerated, WE are going to tell YOU that you have not considered all the aspects of the situation or something like that. Remember:

That is how US immigration law works. Deal with it. Our country was never intended to serve as the flophouse for the world.



Who the he11's fault is that? And I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?
I couldn't agree more. We are penalized for breaking the laws of this country yet, illegals are allowed to march and demand instant everything. In many instances not only do they receive a lot of what they demand, the majority continue to be immune from prosecution and rewarded with our tax dollars and the hope of the passage of another "final" amnesty.

If the bleeding hearts want to contribute to providing for millions of illegal aliens and their offspring who are here by virtue of female illegals who lack self control and continue to breed abundantly and irresponsibly, then they need to set up a fund for them and leave the rest of us out of that eternal payment plan.

The insanity rages on . . . ..

Last edited by JDubsMom; 05-24-2009 at 11:38 AM..
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:56 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,120,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
I couldn't agree more. We are penalized for breaking the laws of this country yet, illegals are allowed to march and demand instant everything. In many instances not only do they receive a lot of what they demand, the majority continue to be immune from prosecution and rewarded with our tax dollars and the hope of the passage of another "final" amnesty.

If the bleeding hearts want to contribute to providing for millions of illegal aliens and their offspring who are here by virtue of female illegals who lack self control and continue to breed abundantly and irresponsibly, then they need to set up a fund for them and leave the rest of us out of that eternal payment plan.

The insanity rages on . . . ..
Agreed.. I say Illegal Alien supporters and employers should be required to pay everyone else's share of the taxes that are spent on housing, health care, imprisonment and other services for Illegal Aliens, while the rest of us, can enjoy paying less taxes and take a nice Vacation!
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Old 05-24-2009, 12:13 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,931,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarpunk View Post
Agreed.. I say Illegal Alien supporters and employers should be required to pay everyone else's share of the taxes that are spent on housing, health care, imprisonment and other services for Illegal Aliens, while the rest of us, can enjoy paying less taxes and take a nice Vacation!
Agreed. Additionally, those who are eligible for deportation should be deported post haste. No matter what sob story they remain here under illegally. Whether brought here as children or not, it's time for all of them to leave willingly or be deported.
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Old 05-24-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 510,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post

Who the he11's fault is that? And I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?
Yes, you are supposed to. That's the point. How the hell do you think half of everything gets done in this country now? We have to create something to elicit an emotion; sadness, empathy, anger, hate, happiness, HOPE, fear, frustration, the list goes on. Its how bills get passed thru congress, how people get elected, and yes, even how illegals get to stay here....illegaly.

We have lost our way, the law is not longer blind and equal to all parties.
It has feelings and a personality. It does what makes people feel better. It blows with the political wind. Why do you think its so damn important who gets elected to the Supreme Court? Whether we like it or not 9 people in funny robes control more of our lives than Congress ever could. They make decisions based on the same emotions that I listed. Not what is just in the eyes of the law. I believe that the next justice is to have 'empathy' for the less fortunate... Why not justice for ALL?

Immigration will be no different either. The sad stories will continue to flow and play on the heart strings of less informed Americans. It's pathetic, but its true. Even worse is, is that it appears to be working very very well.
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Old 05-24-2009, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,880,480 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
Yes, you are supposed to. That's the point. How the hell do you think half of everything gets done in this country now? We have to create something to elicit an emotion; sadness, empathy, anger, hate, happiness, HOPE, fear, frustration, the list goes on. Its how bills get passed thru congress, how people get elected, and yes, even how illegals get to stay here....illegaly.

We have lost our way, the law is not longer blind and equal to all parties.
It has feelings and a personality. It does what makes people feel better. It blows with the political wind. Why do you think its so damn important who gets elected to the Supreme Court? Whether we like it or not 9 people in funny robes control more of our lives than Congress ever could. They make decisions based on the same emotions that I listed. Not what is just in the eyes of the law. I believe that the next justice is to have 'empathy' for the less fortunate... Why not justice for ALL?

Immigration will be no different either. The sad stories will continue to flow and play on the heart strings of less informed Americans. It's pathetic, but its true. Even worse is, is that it appears to be working very very well.
A very sad truth. Excellent post!
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:30 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,668,389 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
Yes, you are supposed to. That's the point. How the hell do you think half of everything gets done in this country now? We have to create something to elicit an emotion; sadness, empathy, anger, hate, happiness, HOPE, fear, frustration, the list goes on. Its how bills get passed thru congress, how people get elected, and yes, even how illegals get to stay here....illegaly.

We have lost our way, the law is not longer blind and equal to all parties.
It has feelings and a personality. It does what makes people feel better. It blows with the political wind. Why do you think its so damn important who gets elected to the Supreme Court? Whether we like it or not 9 people in funny robes control more of our lives than Congress ever could. They make decisions based on the same emotions that I listed. Not what is just in the eyes of the law. I believe that the next justice is to have 'empathy' for the less fortunate... Why not justice for ALL?

Immigration will be no different either. The sad stories will continue to flow and play on the heart strings of less informed Americans. It's pathetic, but its true. Even worse is, is that it appears to be working very very well.
Again, one of mankind's noblest features....(and rarest)...which puts him above the level of 'brute animals', is the capacity to feel GUILT. It's a fine attribute when one does something "bad"....and provides a powerful motivation not to REPEAT that offense.

Unfortunately, guilt can also be used by those who DON'T experience it, against those who DO....and convince them that things are "their fault" which really aren't. America's present conflict over illegal imigration...and our "part" in it....and our "responsibility" for it....and our need to "adjust" to it....contains a heavy reliance upon the fact that we should feel "guilt" for it...a large amount of guilt, shared by neither the illegals NOR their countries of origin. Without that "guilt" as a given, and without the asumption that we ALONE bear that guilt, MUCH of the argument would simply disappear...
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