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Old 05-27-2009, 04:10 AM
 
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Rosemary Jenks, director of government relations at Numbers USA, believes there is an ulterior motive behind the Obama administration's move to expand the program. "This administration, including the secretary of Homeland Security, believes that if they can shift the focus of all immigration enforcement to just 'criminal aliens,' then they will be able to look like they're being tough on enforcement without actually affecting the vast majority of illegal aliens in this country," she states.

*****************

Jenks says while it is important to focus on criminal aliens,she believes at the same time ICE needs to do general enforcement in order to send the message that no illegal alien will get away with living in the United States -- not just those who commit a crime in addition to illegal entry.

Obama's immigration reform step suspect (OneNewsNow.com)

ITA. Those who are here illegally (flying under the radar or not) should not be immune to prosecution, including but not limited to DREAMies and others claiming to have been brought here as children. At the end of the day, they are ALL illegal alien criminals, eligible for deportation.
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Old 05-27-2009, 05:12 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Rosemary Jenks, director of government relations at Numbers USA, believes there is an ulterior motive behind the Obama administration's move to expand the program. "This administration, including the secretary of Homeland Security, believes that if they can shift the focus of all immigration enforcement to just 'criminal aliens,' then they will be able to look like they're being tough on enforcement without actually affecting the vast majority of illegal aliens in this country," she states.

*****************

Jenks says while it is important to focus on criminal aliens,she believes at the same time ICE needs to do general enforcement in order to send the message that no illegal alien will get away with living in the United States -- not just those who commit a crime in addition to illegal entry.

Obama's immigration reform step suspect (OneNewsNow.com)

ITA. Those who are here illegally (flying under the radar or not) should not be immune to prosecution, including but not limited to DREAMies and others claiming to have been brought here as children. At the end of the day, they are ALL illegal alien criminals, eligible for deportation.

Just as in other crimes, people are not exempt. Do I get to keep stolen bank loot? Nope. Whether or not someone was aware of a crime at the time doesn't make that crime disappear. The intent is not there but the crime is still committed. Dreamies don't get a free pass.

They can thank their Parents for robbing the bank with them in tow.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
"This administration, including the secretary of Homeland Security, believes that if they can shift the focus of all immigration enforcement to just 'criminal aliens,' then they will be able to look like they're being tough on enforcement without actually affecting the vast majority of illegal aliens in this country,"
I think this awesome, if this is true finally some immigration policy that follows common sense. Get the real criminals out of here and leave the rest.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,581,916 times
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Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
I think this awesome, if this is true finally some immigration policy that follows common sense. Get the real criminals out of here and leave the rest.
Because entering illegally/overstaying one's visa isn't a criminal offense?

So in other words, do you believe that one can enter illegally/overstay one's visa just as long as he/she don't commit any criminal acts in the process?
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
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Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
Because entering illegally/overstaying one's visa isn't a criminal offense?

So in other words, do you believe that one can enter illegally/overstay one's visa just as long as he/she don't commit any criminal acts in the process?

Yes, and I think the current administration and ICE seem to agree with it as well. And according to the currents polls from the Pew research center, so does 64% of U.S. citizens.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:29 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
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Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Yes, and I think the current administration and ICE seem to agree with it as well. And according to the currents polls from the Pew research center, so does 64% of U.S. citizens.
You have said you do not feel children should suffer for the mistakes of their parents. If the DREAM Act goes through, who do you think the very first people the new citizen Dreamie is going to sponsor will be?


Give up?

The answer is: madre and padre. The parents who made the 'mistake' will end up with US citizenship. Now they can feast at the full buffet of benefits available to US citizens AND bring over additional unskilled, uneducated relatives. It looks to me that in the long term scheme of things, it really did pay for los padres to break the law.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
You have said you do not feel children should suffer for the mistakes of their parents. If the DREAM Act goes through, who do you think the very first people the new citizen Dreamie is going to sponsor will be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post


Give up?

The answer is: madre and padre.
Certainly, brothers and sisters too. And their brothers and sisters might marry someone from another country so they will benefit as well, so I guess the dream act will give amnesty to the whole world, wow, even to the people who has not been born yet. And while we are in that train of thought, legalizing you status by becoming the spouse of a U.S. citizen would have the same effect, are you against legalizing anyone who might have a family member who is an illegal immigrant.

The ability to sponsor a family member is a benefit of being a U.S. citizen. When the individuals included in the DREAM act became citizens they will acquire all the benefits of being a U.S. citizen. Except of course the ability to be president.

Now, letís set a couple of scenarios:

1) Dreamie, over 21, finished high school in the U.S. and have not been able to go to school or join the military because he was an illegal. So now, he will have to apply for DREAM act (lets say processing time 6mo-1year) get a conditional permanent residency, and go to school or the uniformed services for 2 years. (2.5-3 years) Now to became a U.S. citizen you have to be a Legal Permanent Resident for 5 years (I think 3 if you are military or married to a U.S. citizen). So if the individual would start right now, and joined the military the soonest that he would be able to sponsor his family would be 5.5-6 years from now ( all of those years serving in the military) or if he went to school he would be able to sponsor his family in 7.5 to 8 years from now. And those cases are the earliest.

2) Now lets use someone who around 10-12, the earliest you can ask for a family member is after you turn 21, so there alone are 9-11 years before the individual is able to sponsor his parents.

On a second note, when you sponsor someone you have to make enough money to support them, I think 1.15 the poverty rate, or have someone fill an affidavit of support in your behalf. So by the time the dreamie is able to sponsor his parents (both) he has to be able to support a family of 3 (him + dad + mom) without taking on consideration his parents salary.

Quote:
The parents who made the 'mistake' will end up with US citizenship. Now they can feast at the full buffet of benefits available to US citizens AND bring over additional unskilled, uneducated relatives. It looks to me that in the long term scheme of things, it really did pay for los padres to break the law.
Now, that is to the point where the individual would be able to sponsor his parents. From that point, I donít know the processing time for a residency through family, but even then when the parent became residents, they will have to wait for 5 more years, without being a public charge, paying their taxes, and in good moral behavior in order to became a citizen.

From adding all these numbers, the parents of a dreamie will be able to became U.S. citizens, at the earliest, in some exceptional cases, in 10 years + the processing time of the permanent residency. More than likely it would be more around 15 years before an average parent of a dreamie is allowed to became a citizen. I would consider 15 years hardly an amnesty.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:40 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
On a second note, when you sponsor someone you have to make enough money to support them, I think 1.15 the poverty rate, or have someone fill an affidavit of support in your behalf. So by the time the dreamie is able to sponsor his parents (both) he has to be able to support a family of 3 (him + dad + mom) without taking on consideration his parents salary.
In order to sponsor a family member, you need an income 1.15 times the poverty rate.

2009 Poverty Guidelines

1 person= $10,830
2 persons=$14,570
3 persons=$18, 310
4 persons=$22,050

2009 Federal Poverty Guidelines

income required for sponsorship

1 person =$12,454
2 persons=$16,755
3 persons=$21,056
4 persons=$25,357

Now I want you to tell me with a straight face that a single citizen DREAMie earning $12,454 is really going to be able to step up to the plate financially if his or her sponsored relative suffers injuries in a car wreck. Exactly how much help with the bills is the DREAMie realisitically going to be able to offer?

Or take a family of 4 with an income of $25,357 per year. If they sponsor 85 year old grandma who then develops Alzheimer's and needs to be admitted to a nursing home or other facility, do you honestly think they are going to be able to cover the bill? Or if she falls and breaks a hip?

This is a joke. This income requirement is ridiculous. It is so close to the poverty level that it represents no safety net at all. This allows them to bring over anyone and everyone. The bottom line is if there is any expense at all, the US taxpayer will end up footing the bill. And don't bother telling me about all the taxes this family of 4 will be paying.
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
In order to sponsor a family member, you need an income 1.15 times the poverty rate.

2009 Poverty Guidelines

1 person= $10,830
2 persons=$14,570
3 persons=$18, 310
4 persons=$22,050

2009 Federal Poverty Guidelines

income required for sponsorship

1 person =$12,454
2 persons=$16,755
3 persons=$21,056
4 persons=$25,357

Now I want you to tell me with a straight face that a single citizen DREAMie earning $12,454 is really going to be able to step up to the plate financially if his or her sponsored relative suffers injuries in a car wreck. Exactly how much help with the bills is the DREAMie realisitically going to be able to offer?

Or take a family of 4 with an income of $25,357 per year. If they sponsor 85 year old grandma who then develops Alzheimer's and needs to be admitted to a nursing home or other facility, do you honestly think they are going to be able to cover the bill? Or if she falls and breaks a hip?

This is a joke. This income requirement is ridiculous. It is so close to the poverty level that it represents no safety net at all. This allows them to bring over anyone and everyone. The bottom line is if there is any expense at all, the US taxpayer will end up footing the bill. And don't bother telling me about all the taxes this family of 4 will be paying.
Those are the poverty requirements set for any U.S. citizen alike, I was able (under that table) to take care of a 20 person family, and if I one of the people I sponsored were uninsired and had to have some kind of mayor surgery I would have to go on a massive amount of debt to cover for it.

Do you life comfortably? If you do, could you life comfortably if you or someone in your family who doesnt have insurance require to have dialisys, or be diagnosed with diabetes and have to get a monthly supply of insuline. I think really few people would be able to do it.

But that requirement is for everyone, if you disagree with the requirement, then lobby for the increase in the poverty line ( even though this would have serious side effects on who is eligible for welfare )


That requirement is not a "will be able to take care of the sponsored person in the worst case scenario" insurance. I think the requiremenet was set so people on welfare didn't sponsor other people who would also land on welfare. Also if you sponsor someone, that someone would be allowed to work, so it's not like everyone you are sponsoring is a dependant.

And, well, even though I would not be able to cover almost any medical emergencies on my salary alone, I used to be able to pay for my health insurance ( now health insurance is part of my fellowship so I don't pay anything ) who would be able to pay for any medical needs in case I got into an accident, or I was diagnosed with alzheimers.

You cannot dismiss this bill because the financial requirement to sponsor a family member is to low, the bill has nothing to do with it. If you think it's to low, then it's to low for eveyone and it should be changed. Maybe 2.5 poverty line is more appropiate, then we should lobby for "that" regulation to be ammended.
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:59 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Those are the poverty requirements set for any U.S. citizen alike, I was able (under that table) to take care of a 20 person family, and if I one of the people I sponsored were uninsired and had to have some kind of mayor surgery I would have to go on a massive amount of debt to cover for it.

Do you life comfortably? If you do, could you life comfortably if you or someone in your family who doesnt have insurance require to have dialisys, or be diagnosed with diabetes and have to get a monthly supply of insuline. I think really few people would be able to do it.

But that requirement is for everyone, if you disagree with the requirement, then lobby for the increase in the poverty line ( even though this would have serious side effects on who is eligible for welfare )


That requirement is not a "will be able to take care of the sponsored person in the worst case scenario" insurance. I think the requiremenet was set so people on welfare didn't sponsor other people who would also land on welfare. Also if you sponsor someone, that someone would be allowed to work, so it's not like everyone you are sponsoring is a dependant.

And, well, even though I would not be able to cover almost any medical emergencies on my salary alone, I used to be able to pay for my health insurance ( now health insurance is part of my fellowship so I don't pay anything ) who would be able to pay for any medical needs in case I got into an accident, or I was diagnosed with alzheimers.

You cannot dismiss this bill because the financial requirement to sponsor a family member is to low, the bill has nothing to do with it. If you think it's to low, then it's to low for eveyone and it should be changed. Maybe 2.5 poverty line is more appropiate, then we should lobby for "that" regulation to be ammended.
I feel I can safely say that the majority of citizen DREAMies are not going to think like you. I don't think you understand. For you it would be unconscionable to sponsor a relative than refuse to pay medical bills run up by the person you are sponsoring. I do not think these 'former illegal aliens now citizens' are going to have any problem letting everyone else pay their relative's expenses. These are people who have been walking away from medical bills for years. I find it very difficult to believe they are suddenly going to turn over a new leaf once they are citizens. There is a very pervasive attitude of entitlement among this group. That is not going to disappear if they become citizens, if anything it will probably become even worse.

Read this. Read the whole article.

Quote:
Roughly 2,000 times over the past 17 years, Marguerita Toribio, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, has climbed into a cushioned recliner for the three-hour dialysis treatment that keeps her alive.

She has never seen a bill.

U.S. taxpayers have covered the entire cost of her treatment in California: more than $500,000 and rising, not including a kidney transplant in 1993.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ialysis09.html

Last edited by andreabeth; 05-27-2009 at 02:13 PM..
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