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Old 06-13-2009, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,398,109 times
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Hey, some IA enablers in high places are worried ****less that the census will reveal about 30-40 million illegals rather than the ridiculous purposely low gov figure of 12 million. Don't you know it would be pretty hard to ever amnesty 40 million illegals.
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
To think that someone who crawled, ran, walked, jogged, slithered, swam or moon walked across our border is somehow influencing politics by their just being (same a a vote) is outrageous.

You forgot the people who flew in.
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
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Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
Hey, some IA enablers in high places are worried ****less that the census will reveal about 30-40 million illegals rather than the ridiculous purposely low gov figure of 12 million. Don't you know it would be pretty hard to ever amnesty 40 million illegals.
You talk like catching and deporting 40 million illegals would be easier than 12 million. This arguments swings both ways. The more there are, the more votes the democrat party would get by legalizing them.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,398,109 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
You talk like catching and deporting 40 million illegals would be easier than 12 million. This arguments swings both ways. The more there are, the more votes the democrat party would get by legalizing them.
We don't have to worry about deporting every last illegal alien. We just deport as many as fast as we logistically can. A scorched earth policy of attrition through enforcement of immigration laws making it very difficult for illegals to live and work in the US would cause most of the illegals to self deport themselves.

The hispandering career Democratic politicians are having a hard enough time trying to ram an amnesty for the so called 12 million illegals, future Democratic voters if amnestied, down the American public's throats, you don't actually think the American public would stand for giving amnesty to 40 million illegals do you?
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
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Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
We don't have to worry about deporting every last illegal alien. We just deport as many as fast as we logistically can.
So, kind of like we are doing right now, a few now and then? Status-quo.

Quote:
A scorched earth policy of attrition through enforcement of immigration laws making it very difficult for illegals to live and work in the US would cause most of the illegals to self deport themselves.
This would just cause escalation, you come up with a new ID, they come up with a new way to forge the ID. And the groups that are able to replicate the ID became more and more specialized, turning into mafias. Kind of what happened once they started stepping up the border control, before a guide "coyote" used to be able to guide you through, now since it's more likely to get caught a more organized entity is required "Gangs", "drug cartels".

I agree that something should be done to reduce the appeal of individuals comming here illegaly, but there should something be done to enable these individuals to immigrate legally. I dont think, one without the other will work.

Quote:
The hispandering career Democratic politicians are having a hard enough time trying to ram an amnesty for the so called 12 million illegals, future Democratic voters if amnestied, down the American public's throats, you don't actually think the American public would stand for giving amnesty to 40 million illegals do you?
The fact that they are already here, I don't think the public will care if there are 10-20-40 million, they are already here. If the public get the option of legalizing the ones that are already here and reducing the likelyness of some more comming in they will chose that instead of a status quo that leads to an exponential (due to the high fertility rates) increase of illegal aliens.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
The fact that they are already here, I don't think the public will care if there are 10-20-40 million, they are already here. If the public get the option of legalizing the ones that are already here and reducing the likelyness of some more comming in they will chose that instead of a status quo that leads to an exponential (due to the high fertility rates) increase of illegal aliens.
Then, you are clearly not “thinking.”
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:49 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,161,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
The fact that they are already here, I don't think the public will care if there are 10-20-40 million, they are already here. If the public get the option of legalizing the ones that are already here and reducing the likelyness of some more comming in they will chose that instead of a status quo that leads to an exponential (due to the high fertility rates) increase of illegal aliens.
Kellem this is one of the main arguments against amnesty: it will not prevent more from coming in and it will solve nothing. Illegals will continue to pour into the country to take the jobs that the once-illegals had but were just fired from because as legal residents they are harder to take advantage of. It will fix nothing.

Deportation is the only realistic answer. These people do not belong here and have no right to be here.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Kellem this is one of the main arguments against amnesty: it will not prevent more from coming in and it will solve nothing. Illegals will continue to pour into the country to take the jobs that the once-illegals had but were just fired from because as legal residents they are harder to take advantage of. It will fix nothing.

Deportation is the only realistic answer. These people do not belong here and have no right to be here.

That why I don't think amnesty alone is the right way to go. As you say it will not fix anything. It has been done before and people just keep coming in. Do I think it's better than nothing? Yes. Do I think thats the end all fix? No.

The immigration policy should be changed not to benefit people who happen to have family here but based on merit.

And by merit I don't just mean the people who have $500K laying around so they can immigrate themselves by investing in a U.S. company. But the 16-17 yr old who just graduated on the top 10 in their High School class and has been accepted to a U.S. university. Or the 20-30 year old who just completed their bachelor's with a good GPA and now wants to go work and continue his studies. Or the 25-40 that just finished a master's or doctorate degree.

One big motivation for a parent to immigrate is to make sure their sons get a good education and have a better chance at being successful at life. I think if you could create a path to legal immigration that takes into account merit on their home country, more and more people would chose to look to achieve the merit and then immigrate legally, instead of immigrating illegally and then being stuck waiting for the next amnesty.
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Old 06-14-2009, 04:08 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,775,361 times
Reputation: 4446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
That why I don't think amnesty alone is the right way to go. As you say it will not fix anything. It has been done before and people just keep coming in. Do I think it's better than nothing? Yes. Do I think thats the end all fix? No.

The immigration policy should be changed not to benefit people who happen to have family here but based on merit.

And by merit I don't just mean the people who have $500K laying around so they can immigrate themselves by investing in a U.S. company. But the 16-17 yr old who just graduated on the top 10 in their High School class and has been accepted to a U.S. university. Or the 20-30 year old who just completed their bachelor's with a good GPA and now wants to go work and continue his studies. Or the 25-40 that just finished a master's or doctorate degree.

One big motivation for a parent to immigrate is to make sure their sons get a good education and have a better chance at being successful at life. I think if you could create a path to legal immigration that takes into account merit on their home country, more and more people would chose to look to achieve the merit and then immigrate legally, instead of immigrating illegally and then being stuck waiting for the next amnesty.

if they are doing so well in their home country, they should stay and try to save mexico. mexico is a powder keg and their citizens need to step up to the plate to facilitate mexico's reform. running away from your problems is not the same as solving them. of course, mexico wants to send their uneducated / unskilled workers because that helps stabilize their population on the backs of americans.
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Old 06-14-2009, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
if they are doing so well in their home country, they should stay and try to save mexico. mexico is a powder keg and their citizens need to step up to the plate to facilitate mexico's reform. running away from your problems is not the same as solving them. of course, mexico wants to send their uneducated / unskilled workers because that helps stabilize their population on the backs of americans.
What about the ones who do not leave in Mexico?
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