U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,352,244 times
Reputation: 453

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Bottom line: Under NO circumstances should a U.S. citizen be forced to change occupations because greedy employers prefer cheap illegal labor.
Exactly. Tell me Kellem, how is it that when my grandfather had his construction business in the 60's he could afford to pay his employees 20-30 per hour, but now he has to pay them 15-20? He cannot keep up with illegal hiring contractors. 49 years ago, he could pay double what he is paying now. And you say that it is the Americans fault for that? It is because illegals have come in and will work for a pittance of what the American/legal will work for. That is why CEO profits have sored and blue collar workers income has dropped or has stayed exactly the same.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Fine we can call the person who I am talking about Benikar, a ficticius character.

And I did not belittle teacher, or I.T. people. I love my teachers, and i would love for them to get paid more, right now their conditions are substandard and they do a critical mission. And I pride myself from working I.T.

I think you completely missed my example, by taking my post as a personal attack, your last post suggests that you have some kind of inferiority complex where you think that people are always attacking you. I do not have the will to further elaborate on that example, if someone else needs clarification send me a PM.


PS: I though you (Benicar) had sent me a PM where you said you were in I.T. but it was from a different user and I got confused.
You have consistently made comments intended to belittle the citizens of this country, as well as individual posters. You frequently do this under the guise of using an analogy; but itís not rocket science. Think what you choose, I wonít lose any sleep over your opinion of me; and I highly doubt anyone on this forum is interested in your Benicar revelations. However, I will continue to bring your little game to your attention.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:34 PM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,117,125 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Demand didn't fall. People did not stop buying new houses. The problem is that the wages for construction workers were undercut by illegal aliens, people who are not supposed to be in the US. Once again, if an American wishes to work as a drywaller or bricklayer after having taken into consideration the pay, the work conditions, etc., then they should be able to do that. Their job is worth protecting. When we are forced to tolerate an illegal taking the job all we do is create additional problems. We now have the illegal working for lowball wages who in time will either drag over his family or create one in the US putting strain on our social services and we also now have an out of work US citizen who we must provide assistance. What do you think happens to these displaced US citizens? There are only so many jobs at the Gap and Starbucks and no one is hiring anyhow. What exactly are they supposed to retrain for? NO ONE IS HIRING. When a construction worker loses a job that previously paid enough to cover the bills, typically he and his family begin to lose ground financially. And what for? So we can enjoy the 'benefits' of millions of deadbeat illegals? No thanks. And don't even waste your time telling me they are not deadbeats, I know more about how they loot our healthcare system than you ever will.




Fair enough. What about a roofer? His job cannot be outsourced. No one is going to start shipping fully shingled roofs from China to the US? If he loses a job, it is most likely because his wages were undercut by someone in the US illegally.




Once again, this underscores the total lack of a moral compass. Since I can get away with it, it is OK that I don't pay my bills. Do these people have any comprehension of the concept of right and wrong?



That's too bad.



They are bettering their country by dumping all their poor and uneducated on the US. We then are forced to provide social services for them free of charge while they send their paychecks back to Mexico. If you are experiencing financial problems and you rob a bank, you haven't really solved your problem, now have you?

I worked I.T. for 6 years, got promoted 5 times during that time. 2 of times my whole department got outsourced, and I got sent out to train the people who was going to replace me. Do I oppose outsourcing? No. If I put myself on the shoes of the person who made the decision it likely made business sense. I still hold a fair amount of stock in that company, and I plan on keeping it, benefiting from the outsourcing.


Ok..good
[/quote]


Awesome!!! I would Rep ya, but I'm not able to!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,352,244 times
Reputation: 453
I am a Benicar-sexual . Now with the kidding aside. Benicar comes into each post and eloquently debates his side of issues. Please do not belittle him or anyone else that has a different view point that you do. It is at the least wrong and definitely rude.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
Exactly. Tell me Kellem, how is it that when my grandfather had his construction business in the 60's he could afford to pay his employees 20-30 per hour, but now he has to pay them 15-20? He cannot keep up with illegal hiring contractors. 49 years ago, he could pay double what he is paying now. And you say that it is the Americans fault for that? It is because illegals have come in and will work for a pittance of what the American/legal will work for. That is why CEO profits have sored and blue collar workers income has dropped or has stayed exactly the same.
It's not the 60's anymore. Why doesn't he pay them $20-30/hr? I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he has to and it's not due to greed.

The value of the skills of his workers has sunk. And I think that in this age, where people are looking for a way to minimize costs on everything, the amount he pays his workers will remain stagnant or drop, even if there is no more illegals.

Their skills are not worthed what they were before, this has happened to people in many fields not just construction, but teaching (and I'm really sorry about that). And other skillsets have set into their places. (People in software design, graphic designers, people that perform personal services - therapists, personal trainers, psicologists, masseus).

As time moves along the minimum requirements of people for earning a decent living increase, at some point few people had high school diplomas, so having one would give you access to more oportunities; then high school was not enough. So now you need a college degree.. in the future it might be really common to have an advances/professional degree, so a college diploma might not be enough. And people will complain, in the 2000's I was able to make a decent living with a college diploma how come I have a low end job now... Your skillset has lost it's value.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
I am a Benicar-sexual . Now with the kidding aside. Benicar comes into each post and eloquently debates his side of issues. Please do not belittle him or anyone else that has a different view point that you do. It is at the least wrong and definitely rude.
Thanks for the support. We are all here to express our opinions, but the games are becoming tiresome. Itís especially annoying coming from someone who clearly has no respect for this country.

BTW, Iím a she, not a he.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:47 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
So mass production, automation, globalization are all bad?

Why should people be paid more than what their skills are worthed?

It's just a demand vs. supply problem. If you want to make more money, then learn skills that have a lower supply or that are in higher demand. Or even better, both. Keep an "eagle's eye" on your career and make sure you don't get left out behind.
No, redefining the industry is not the same. Automation is a great thing as usually that means another market comes open for those taken back by the automation. Flooding the market with cheap labor being subsidized by our taxes for the benefit of a few is horrendous.

Do you support black market,cheap crap from China too? That's cheaper because of cheap labor.

I think we should make taxes with a choice, the choice being where we want our taxes to go. There will be a check box for Illegal Aliens and if that box isn't checked then my taxes can't be forced to pay for them. I can support unemployed Americans in this manner without subsidizing trespassers.

I think we would see massive movement South.

A carpenter is worth 20 bucks an hour not 8 or so thanks to Illegals living 20 to a house sending money out of the US.

If the US was really "benefitting" from this we'd bring in a couple million Somalis to undercut these current Illegals. The current Pro-Illegals would have a melt down.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
It's not the 60's anymore. Why doesn't he pay them $20-30/hr? I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he has to and it's not due to greed.

The value of the skills of his workers has sunk. And I think that in this age, where people are looking for a way to minimize costs on everything, the amount he pays his workers will remain stagnant or drop, even if there is no more illegals.

Their skills are not worthed what they were before, this has happened to people in many fields not just construction, but teaching (and I'm really sorry about that). And other skillsets have set into their places. (People in software design, graphic designers, people that perform personal services - therapists, personal trainers, psicologists, masseus).

As time moves along the minimum requirements of people for earning a decent living increase, at some point few people had high school diplomas, so having one would give you access to more oportunities; then high school was not enough. So now you need a college degree.. in the future it might be really common to have an advances/professional degree, so a college diploma might not be enough. And people will complain, in the 2000's I was able to make a decent living with a college diploma how come I have a low end job now... Your skillset has lost it's value.
Wages are declining because we have been invaded by millions of illegal aliens who are willing to work for less; our manufacturing jobs have either been relocated or outsourced to foreign countries; and we are replacing qualified U.S. workers with H1-B visa holders. Itís all fueled by greed. Tell me, what are U.S. citizens supposed to do to survive if there are NO jobs left in this country?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,912 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
It's not the 60's anymore. Why doesn't he pay them $20-30/hr? I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he has to and it's not due to greed.

The value of the skills of his workers has sunk. And I think that in this age, where people are looking for a way to minimize costs on everything, the amount he pays his workers will remain stagnant or drop, even if there is no more illegals.

Their skills are not worthed what they were before, this has happened to people in many fields not just construction, but teaching (and I'm really sorry about that). And other skillsets have set into their places. (People in software design, graphic designers, people that perform personal services - therapists, personal trainers, psicologists, masseus).

As time moves along the minimum requirements of people for earning a decent living increase, at some point few people had high school diplomas, so having one would give you access to more oportunities; then high school was not enough. So now you need a college degree.. in the future it might be really common to have an advances/professional degree, so a college diploma might not be enough. And people will complain, in the 2000's I was able to make a decent living with a college diploma how come I have a low end job now... Your skillset has lost it's value.
Wow, I have been reading your posts and I am just baffled. Don't you think you should know what your talking about before you speak? Do you have the slightest clue what it takes to do the jobs you are labelling as basically peasant jobs? Those jobs ARE worth that much, but when you are an illegal, not paying taxes, not paying for medical insurance, living in a run down shack with 20 other illegals you can afford to work for much less. The American trying support his family on the other hand needs more when he has to pay all of the above, ironic when the taxes he pays go to support the very illegals lowering his wage and taking his job. Newsflash, not all Americans can go to college for a number of reasons, but more importantly there ARE NOT ENOUGH HIGH END JOBS FOR EVERY AMERICAN. The social ladder is tall, and it requires workers of all education and skill levels to make this country go round. How DARE you say an illegal is more entitled to ANYTHING over a citizen of this country.

P.S. How many illegals do you have to deal with up there in Ann Arbor?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
P.S. How many illegals do you have to deal with up there in Ann Arbor?
I have no idea, not many, but I don't know Ijust got here about 8 months ago, but there were many in Austin, TX where I lived for 6 years, it's one of the sanctuary cities right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top