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Old 06-01-2009, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,352,244 times
Reputation: 453

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
Wow, I have been reading your posts and I am just baffled. Don't you think you should know what your talking about before you speak? Do you have the slightest clue what it takes to do the jobs you are labelling as basically peasant jobs? Those jobs ARE worth that much, but when you are an illegal, not paying taxes, not paying for medical insurance, living in a run down shack with 20 other illegals you can afford to work for much less. The American trying support his family on the other hand needs more when he has to pay all of the above, ironic when the taxes he pays go to support the very illegals lowering his wage and taking his job. Newsflash, not all Americans can go to college for a number of reasons, but more importantly there ARE NOT ENOUGH HIGH END JOBS FOR EVERY AMERICAN. The social ladder is tall, and it requires workers of all education and skill levels to make this country go round. How DARE you say an illegal is more entitled to ANYTHING over a citizen of this country.

P.S. How many illegals do you have to deal with up there in Ann Arbor?

Well said. I would like to see these people that claim that Construction/roofing/bricklaying/machine work/steel walking/iron hanging/grinding/any blue collar job actually do them. They are hot, they take a ton of skill. How would they handle walking along a 10/12 roof with a bundle of shingles 4 stories in the air? Oh what does that mean? It means you have to carry at least a million dollars in insurance. A lot of states make you become bonded as well. As a contractor you also have to become licensed by the state. You have to take a test every 3 years to keep pace with the changing application procedures. Yeah that is menial work is it not?
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:20 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,048,183 times
Reputation: 17978
Any citynear the border will have alot of illegals especailly if it has alot of citizens that are of spanish background.I also have to say that the quilty of work has liitle to do wih nationality even if I do appose amnesty and illegal be allowed to stay.I have seen somje really shoddy wirk done by amercian so called carpenters and othe home builders.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Do you support black market,cheap crap from China too? That's cheaper because of cheap labor.
Look around your house, most of the stuff in the average U.S. house hold does not have a tag that says made in the U.S., those manufacturing jobs have already been taken overseas.

Quote:
I think we should make taxes with a choice, the choice being where we want our taxes to go. There will be a check box for Illegal Aliens and if that box isn't checked then my taxes can't be forced to pay for them. I can support unemployed Americans in this manner without subsidizing trespassers.

I think we would see massive movement South.
I also think this would be awesome, for every item in the budget a check mark with where you want to give your money and where not to. Even better if you cannot find thing you like in your budget you can keep the rest. How much would you assign to money that can be spent for people in death row, or for research in an obscure disease? People with causes that are not very common would get screwed.

I do think though, that social support programs for illegal aliens should be cut, i mean if you are coming here, you are coming to work, not leech on the government.


Quote:
A carpenter is worth 20 bucks an hour not 8 or so thanks to Illegals living 20 to a house sending money out of the US.
You sure, I have seen many artisan carpenters making a lot more, have you tried to have a piece of furniture customer made recently? But people are willing to pay for it. If no one wants to pay for it then they would have to sacrifice their pay. Again their skills are worthed what people are willing to pay.

Quote:
If the US was really "benefitting" from this we'd bring in a couple million Somalis to undercut these current Illegals. The current Pro-Illegals would have a melt down.
Some probably would, personally I wouldn't care. Lets get their kids to college though.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,352,244 times
Reputation: 453
Tex this is about illegals of all nationalities that come here. I am not picking on the mexican illegals alone. I wish they all would go home to their home countries and come here legally.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,352,244 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Thanks for the support. We are all here to express our opinions, but the games are becoming tiresome. Itís especially annoying coming from someone who clearly has no respect for this country.

BTW, Iím a she, not a he.

Gah, terribly sorry Ma'am.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
Gah, terribly sorry Ma'am.
Thatís ok. On this forum, I have often been mistaken for being a guy.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
Well said. I would like to see these people that claim that Construction/roofing/bricklaying/machine work/steel walking/iron hanging/grinding/any blue collar job actually do them. They are hot, they take a ton of skill. How would they handle walking along a 10/12 roof with a bundle of shingles 4 stories in the air? Oh what does that mean? It means you have to carry at least a million dollars in insurance. A lot of states make you become bonded as well. As a contractor you also have to become licensed by the state. You have to take a test every 3 years to keep pace with the changing application procedures. Yeah that is menial work is it not?

Now, if that is the case, how come contractors are hiring uneducated illegal aliens to do these jobs. How are they getting the millions of dollars in insurance? How are they walking along a 10/12 roof with a bundle of shingles 4 stories in the air? and how are they becoming bonded?

I do not doubt that the construction work is hard and taxing, I know it is, back in my country most of the constructions are made from concrete and bricks, and when putting the ceiling it takes a small army of people to carry it upstairs in buckets and set it in place. So you hire a lot of people who can carry a lot of weight and the do really hard work, but it's not work that requires a lot of any particular training. And it's easy to find the people to do it.

Now if you say here is different and that the people who do this work do need very specific training, and that several certifications and insurance are required, then how are they hiring uneducated illegal immigrants.

Those are not immigration laws that are getting violated, but other laws that are not being enforced. What do you think will prevent employers from hiring unemployed U.S. citizens who are under-qualified for the job instead of skilled workers if the illegal aliens are gone?

This is the point that I'm trying to make:

If the job skill needed to perform a certain job is such that an uneducated individual can do it then it's not a skill that is hot, and that a lot of skills is required to do it.

Now if the employers are bypassing the other requirements for someone to do a job, that requires skills that not anyone, but only people with specialized training can do it. This is not an immigration issue. The laws regarding the requirements of the job need to be enforced.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:35 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,711,852 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Look around your house, most of the stuff in the average U.S. house hold does not have a tag that says made in the U.S., those manufacturing jobs have already been taken overseas.



I also think this would be awesome, for every item in the budget a check mark with where you want to give your money and where not to. Even better if you cannot find thing you like in your budget you can keep the rest. How much would you assign to money that can be spent for people in death row, or for research in an obscure disease? People with causes that are not very common would get screwed.

I do think though, that social support programs for illegal aliens should be cut, i mean if you are coming here, you are coming to work, not leech on the government.




You sure, I have seen many artisan carpenters making a lot more, have you tried to have a piece of furniture customer made recently? But people are willing to pay for it. If no one wants to pay for it then they would have to sacrifice their pay. Again their skills are worthed what people are willing to pay.



Some probably would, personally I wouldn't care. Lets get their kids to college though.
Ok, Ok.......name me one reasonably developed country that has benefitted from a massive influx of unskilled labor in the past 25 years. I don't care what happened 100 years ago. One hundred years ago we had one third the population we do now and one readily could support a family with one worker with a HS education. That is all most people had.

Now if all of this illegal immigration is so beneficial, why is it that most developed countries seem to be limiting it? Ireland and Canada both got rid of birthright citizenship when foreigners abused it. If this is sooooo great for the US, why aren't other developed countries throwing their borders wide open?
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Now, if that is the case, how come contractors are hiring uneducated illegal aliens to do these jobs. How are they getting the millions of dollars in insurance? How are they walking along a 10/12 roof with a bundle of shingles 4 stories in the air? and how are they becoming bonded?

I do not doubt that the construction work is hard and taxing, I know it is, back in my country most of the constructions are made from concrete and bricks, and when putting the ceiling it takes a small army of people to carry it upstairs in buckets and set it in place. So you hire a lot of people who can carry a lot of weight and the do really hard work, but it's not work that requires a lot of any particular training. And it's easy to find the people to do it.

Now if you say here is different and that the people who do this work do need very specific training, and that several certifications and insurance are required, then how are they hiring uneducated illegal immigrants.

Those are not immigration laws that are getting violated, but other laws that are not being enforced. What do you think will prevent employers from hiring unemployed U.S. citizens who are under-qualified for the job instead of skilled workers if the illegal aliens are gone?

This is the point that I'm trying to make:

If the job skill needed to perform a certain job is such that an uneducated individual can do it then it's not a skill that is hot, and that a lot of skills is required to do it.

Now if the employers are bypassing the other requirements for someone to do a job, that requires skills that not anyone, but only people with specialized training can do it. This is not an immigration issue. The laws regarding the requirements of the job need to be enforced.
Quote:
Four years ago, Paul Leyendecker was doing OK in the roofing business. He tackled 150 to 200 jobs per year. At one point, he even started a Christmas in July promotion, in which his company would install a free roof for a deserving, low-income senior citizen.

Today, Leyendecker is out of the roofing business; not because business was slow, but because many of his competitors - looking for cheap, readily available labor - were using illegal workers.

Steve Hackbarth, owner of Minnetonka-based Hackbarth Roofing, said many in the industry see immigrants as a source of cheap labor. This desire for low-cost, unskilled labor, he said, has lowered the bar for quality.

It's destroying the industry, he said. Everyone is competing for who will work for the least amount of money.

The result? Overall quality in the industry is the worst I have ever seen it, said Hackbarth, who founded his company in the early 1990s.

As proof, he rattled off examples of substandard roofing jobs he has seen: a church roof that has to be redone after only six years; another roof that has been rebuilt four times in 21 years; and a million-dollar home with a three-year-old roof that's shot.

The industry, and the economy as a whole, should put more emphasis on quality instead of quantity, according to Hackbarth. There's nothing of high value anymore.

Craig Silvertooth, director of federal affairs for the National Roofing Contractors Association, acknowledged that some roofing contractors intentionally hire undocumented workers and don't pay proper wages.

Fraudulent documents account for part of the problem, according to Silvertooth. He said there are certain enterprises - including gangs that also deal in drugs and guns - that make millions of dollars producing bogus documents for illegal immigrants.
Critics say roofing industry has too much unskilled labor | Daily Record and the Kansas City Daily News-Press | Find Articles at BNET




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Old 06-01-2009, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,128 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Ok, Ok.......name me one reasonably developed country that has benefitted from a massive influx of unskilled labor in the past 25 years. I don't care what happened 100 years ago. One hundred years ago we had one third the population we do now and one readily could support a family with one worker with a HS education. That is all most people had.

Now if all of this illegal immigration is so beneficial, why is it that most developed countries seem to be limiting it? Ireland and Canada both got rid of birthright citizenship when foreigners abused it. If this is sooooo great for the US, why aren't other developed countries throwing their borders wide open?
I think this is a really good post, and at the moment I do not know how to answer it.

I do have to mention the European Union, where you can move around and find work and set residence anywhere in the EU. Before, you could have been considered an illegal alien, because you were from a different country now you are no longer an illegal country. They have effectively eliminated illegal aliens from the European nations that form the EU to other European nations. And not all the European nations that from the EU are equally matched in financial, cultural and educational status.

People move around to find work, they move around to find school. They are benefiting for having open borders within themselves.

I cannot assert to what point this border policies have influenced these nations of the EU, as a collective, their currency is currently stronger than the US. ( one of the indicators of how good a country is doing in relation to another) In 1986 the exchange rate was around 1 to 1, and now in 2009 its at 1.4 Dollars per Euro, with it's peak at almost 1.6.

Euro to US Dollar (/EURUS) - Stock chart, Index chart - MSN Money
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