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Old 05-30-2009, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,615,921 times
Reputation: 267

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Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Labor Department yesterday suspended a regulation adopted shortly before President George W. Bush left office that would have made it easier for farmers to bring in foreign workers.

Many immigration and labor advocacy groups had opposed the new rule for lowering wages and eliminating some protections for temporary farm workers. But farm owners supported the Bush administration changes, saying they eliminated red tape that made it harder to bring in foreign workers to help harvest crops.

The rule affects the H-2A guest worker program, which lets employers hire foreign workers if they can’t first find American workers. The new regulation took effect on Jan. 17, just days before President Barack Obama was sworn into office.

Labor Secretary Hilda Solis had proposed suspending the regulation in March. The suspension restores the old regulations governing the program while officials craft new rules.

Democrats cheered the move, saying the regulation cut oversight of the H-2A program and made it much easier for employers to hire foreign workers over available American workers.

“I commend Labor Secretary Hilda Solis for suspending this destructive midnight regulation that slashed already low wages for farm workers,” said Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee.

As many as 1 million people work in the nation’s farms each year, and the Labor Department estimates that more than half are in the country illegally.
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Interesting.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:31 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,490,480 times
Reputation: 22275
Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
Even if half of 1 million farmworkers are here illegally, that's only 500,000 people. So farmwork explains why up to 500,000 illegals may be here. What on earth are the others doing?
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:35 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,141,453 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Even if half of 1 million farmworkers are here illegally, that's only 500,000 people. So farmwork explains why up to 500,000 illegals may be here. What on earth are the others doing?
"The jobs that Americans Won't Do".. Ya know like Construction, Dry Wall, Yard Work, Working in the Meat Packing industry, Assembly line work, Fast Food Restaurants, Gas Stations, Restaurants.. etc..
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:19 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,196 posts, read 33,593,322 times
Reputation: 14157
Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarpunk View Post
"The jobs that Americans Won't Do".. Ya know like Construction, Dry Wall, Yard Work, Working in the Meat Packing industry, Assembly line work, Fast Food Restaurants, Gas Stations, Restaurants.. etc..


You means jobs Americans can no longer afford to do.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,386,749 times
Reputation: 454
Agreed Bent. Wages have suffered because of these people. I remember working construction and making 16-30 per hour. Now a construction worker makes roughly 8-14 per hour. How is it that cost of living has gone up, but wages have gone down. Luckily I am in an office now. No need to sweat to death for someone to pay crap wages. Amazing that I used to make double that 15 years ago.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,199,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
Agreed Bent. Wages have suffered because of these people. I remember working construction and making 16-30 per hour. Now a construction worker makes roughly 8-14 per hour. How is it that cost of living has gone up, but wages have gone down. Luckily I am in an office now. No need to sweat to death for someone to pay crap wages. Amazing that I used to make double that 15 years ago.

What happens is that people who used to work construction though that they were entitled to $16-30/hour while their work was not worthed that much, since other people could do it for much less. They sat complacent of their salaries and did not specialized, no further education to go on a became architects or civil engineers, or project managers. So now they cry because even though their value has not raised over the time (it has devalued), they expected their salaries to raise.

The same thing happens when outsourcing, globally your value is not the same as locally, so you either find something that not many people can do (specialize) or get ready to be replaced by someone who can do the same job you did for far less money.

I still wonder when all these construction jobs are going to be automatized anyway. I think the controls area is there, I wonder when would it make business sense to go that way.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,386,749 times
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Mechanized construction? I think not. Too many variables when building. And their work is not the same as ours. I have seen houses literally fall down that were built by illegals. I have also lived in the same house that myself and my grandfather built when I was 10. And not a single crack in the drywall or ceiling.

Illegals depress the hourly wage. It is that simple. Then Americans have no choice but to take the job at a depressed rate or have no job. This is why Mexico's classes are so separated. This is why America's classes are also becoming widely separated.

Spin it how you want Kellem, Illegals are bad MMMkay?
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,141,453 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
What happens is that people who used to work construction though that they were entitled to $16-30/hour while their work was not worthed that much, since other people could do it for much less. They sat complacent of their salaries and did not specialized, no further education to go on a became architects or civil engineers, or project managers. So now they cry because even though their value has not raised over the time (it has devalued), they expected their salaries to raise.

The same thing happens when outsourcing, globally your value is not the same as locally, so you either find something that not many people can do (specialize) or get ready to be replaced by someone who can do the same job you did for far less money.

I still wonder when all these construction jobs are going to be automatized anyway. I think the controls area is there, I wonder when would it make business sense to go that way.
The argument that Americans should expect less contradicts the American premise that this is the land of opportunity.. The CEO's and Managers of these said Construction companies have seen OBSCENE profits, so why not share the prosperity with the people that create and build to make these obscene profits possible? Why should American workers have to settle for less because a company decides to hire criminal illegal aliens rather than qualified American workers..

Maybe these companies should relocate to Mexico and promote construction there? Nobody wins in the race to the bottom except for the CEO's and the people in charge of these companies.. The American workers get screwed, the Illegal Aliens are exploited, the people that live in Mexico do NOT see their country's condition improving, etc.. This race to the bottom is one of the main factors of the current economic collapse..
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,199,802 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarpunk View Post
The argument that Americans should expect less contradicts the American premise that this is the land of opportunity.. The CEO's and Managers of these said Construction companies have seen OBSCENE profits, so why not share the prosperity with the people that create and build to make these obscene profits possible? Why should American workers have to settle for less because a company decides to hire criminal illegal aliens rather than qualified American workers..
Why does my argument contradict that the U.S. is the land of the opportunity? The U.S. is not the land of the entitlement, the construction workers can educate themselves and take advantage of the opportunities have to offer, opportunities don't come to you, you have to go look for them, and once you find them you have to be prepared to take advantage of them.

Why (other than the fact that they are illegal) should a business owned pay a U.S. worker 2 to 3 times as much as he has to for the same job?
The job gets done the same. (A previous poster gave a counter example that the houses were not built the same. Then the company is willing to bear the liability of the incompetence of the worker. Exactly similar as when hiring someone new and inexperienced)

Quote:
Maybe these companies should relocate to Mexico and promote construction there?
then who constructs here? Are you willing to pay the 2 to 3 times for the labour when buying a house just to know that it was a U.S. citizen building it? I don't, as long as it's build correctly I could not care less who built it.

Quote:
Nobody wins in the race to the bottom except for the CEO's and the people in charge of these companies..
The stockholders win too, and a lot of companies are publicly traded. So you ( the U.S. worker) can win too, you just need to stop buying stuff you don't need, invest in education and progressively buy a growing part of the companies.

Quote:
The American workers get screwed,
Only the ones who grow complacent. But that was their own fault.

Quote:
the Illegal Aliens are exploited,
Hardly, if they considered were what would be their motivations of coming here. they would just leave. Or stop working and live on welfare ( as some of the posters in this forum seem to really like to point out )

Quote:
the people that live in Mexico do NOT see their country's condition improving, etc..
What happened to those billions of money remittances to Mexico? I bet they help, at least a little bit. Don't think so?

Quote:
This race to the bottom is one of the main factors of the current economic collapse..
Elaborate please.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego
34,951 posts, read 31,969,818 times
Reputation: 19424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
Mechanized construction? I think not. Too many variables when building. And their work is not the same as ours. I have seen houses literally fall down that were built by illegals. I have also lived in the same house that myself and my grandfather built when I was 10. And not a single crack in the drywall or ceiling.

Illegals depress the hourly wage. It is that simple. Then Americans have no choice but to take the job at a depressed rate or have no job. This is why Mexico's classes are so separated. This is why America's classes are also becoming widely separated.

Spin it how you want Kellem, Illegals are bad MMMkay?
Anything that suppresses wages is bad.

Since our best option is the border fence we cannot build it fast or high enough. We also need to get serious about work place raids. Fine or jail the employer and deport the scab labor under cutting Americans desperate for work.
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