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Old 05-31-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
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This seems to being spun into a race issue, but Illegal is Illegal regardless of WHERE the person originates.. If a group of people come into the U.S. en Masse, refuse to learn English, undercut American workers for jobs, bankrupt social services, and commit fraud and identity theft, regardless of origin, they would STILL be a Problem..
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:02 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Best question on this forum in a long time .

To me "trouble" comes when you can visually see, hear and recognize the differences of the illegal immigrants compared to the "natives". Culture is also a big part of it though and Latin Americans really aren't that far from Americans culturally IMO. Spaniards found this country and created cities like St. Augustine and once owned the Western States, culture is embedded there.

Personally, I think it could be worse. At least people from Mexico and Latin America share the same primary beliefs in religion being Christians. Also United States already has a Spanish speaking territory in Puerto Rico. Americans are pretty familiar with Mexican and Latin food.

What if Christian illegal Mexicans were replaced by Arabic Muslims, like Europe? That would be a much larger impact IMO.

Now I do think if you replaced illegal Mexicans with illegal Irish or Canadians...it would be a totally different story, no matter how low class. If they were white and spoke english, they would blend in visually anywhere in the US, much harder to discriminate against, so "trouble" would be lower.

Africans would probably be given a pass just based on guilt of slavery. We probably have a high number of illegal Africans already, yet I never hear of an ICE raid on them.

Non-English speaking whites, like Polish, Romanians, Russians..etc would probably have less impact than Latin Americans, but again just because they can blend in visually anywhere. Think of a Mexican in Iowa vs a Russian in Iowa (or take L.A. for example which has many illegal Russians).
Good post, Mach....and I agree on just about all points, down the line. The only caution I'd have is that this is strictly a "what if", hypothetical scenario. As a matter of fact, the huge majority of our illegals at this point are NOT lower-class whites; are NOT muslims; are NOT Africans; and do NOT speak English as a first language....therefore, whether "a million" other illegals would be BETTER, or WORSE, than the 20 million we NOW have, is strictly a matter of speculation.

But once again, since we're speculating, I agree with your summary just about point-for-point.

Purely on a personal side-note, I've always believed that "IF" huge numbers of illegals WERE suddenly 'white'.....and IF they spoke English..while MUCH of the racism and xenophobia we see on this forum would PROBABLY go away, so would MUCH of the sympathy we now see toward our "real" illegals....white illegals simply wouldn't be disliked or 'feared' as much, but on the other hand, few people would feel the need to 'excuse' them , either..BOTH sides of the same 'racist coin'.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,001 posts, read 31,949,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Traveler View Post
Many people who are against illegal immigration complain about the millions of illegal aliens coming from Latin America. In fact 2/3 of all illegal aliens who are in the United States are from Mexico or Latin America. Most of the illegal aliens are from their lower classes. Most do not even have a high school diploma. The large number of unskilled, low class, poorly educated illegal aliens from Latin America has turned America upside down.

What if these 20 million illegal aliens were not from Latin America? What if they were from China, or Russia or Eastern Europe, or Africa? But they were still from their lower class, poorly educated and unskilled? Would the impact they have on America be any different?

Does the fact that the people who are our illegal immigrants are from Latin America make any difference regarding their disruption to our society? Maybe the fact that THE MAJORITY of our illegal aliens are from Latin America is actually good. If they were from Asia or Africa maybe it would be even more disruptive to America? What do you think?
I'm suspecting that this poster has a few past lives on citydata.

Anyway, from my inclination there would probably be somewhat less trouble. For one most immigrants from these countries speak english.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:33 AM
 
943 posts, read 2,706,706 times
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I hear that the Muslim's from Africa that are invading Europe are ten times worse than our illegal aliens who come from Latin America. Anyone who has spent alot of time in both places have an opinion?

I think everyone agrees that illegal immigrants are bad news. But does anyone think that illegals from one country or another is worse?
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Best question on this forum in a long time .

To me "trouble" comes when you can visually see, hear and recognize the differences of the illegal immigrants compared to the "natives". Culture is also a big part of it though and Latin Americans really aren't that far from Americans culturally IMO. Spaniards found this country and created cities like St. Augustine and once owned the Western States, culture is embedded there.

Personally, I think it could be worse. At least people from Mexico and Latin America share the same primary beliefs in religion being Christians. Also United States already has a Spanish speaking territory in Puerto Rico. Americans are pretty familiar with Mexican and Latin food.

What if Christian illegal Mexicans were replaced by Arabic Muslims, like Europe? That would be a much larger impact IMO.

Now I do think if you replaced illegal Mexicans with illegal Irish or Canadians...it would be a totally different story, no matter how low class. If they were white and spoke english, they would blend in visually anywhere in the US, much harder to discriminate against, so "trouble" would be lower.

Africans would probably be given a pass just based on guilt of slavery. We probably have a high number of illegal Africans already, yet I never hear of an ICE raid on them.

Non-English speaking whites, like Polish, Romanians, Russians..etc would probably have less impact than Latin Americans, but again just because they can blend in visually anywhere. Think of a Mexican in Iowa vs a Russian in Iowa (or take L.A. for example which has many illegal Russians).
I agree with most of your post; although, all things being equal, illegals would still create the same problems we currently have.

I must disagree with your assessment of the treatment of Africans. They would not be given a pass due to guilt over slavery; and they are deported back to Africa when detected today, notwithstanding the cost. Furthermore, due to slavery, there is no camaraderie or shared culture between Black Americans and Africans. Race is the only commonality. Millions of Africans could NEVER have descended upon this country. It simply would not have been tolerated; as evidenced by the disparity in treatment between Haitians and Hispanics.

I donít believe 20+ million illegal aliens from ANY country would be welcomed with open arms. After all, it isnít an issue of race/ethnicity -- itís an issue of lawlessness and the destruction of our country. If youíre going to receive a fatal shot to your head, does the race/ethnicity of the shooter really matter?
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:15 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Traveler View Post
Many people who are against illegal immigration complain about the millions of illegal aliens coming from Latin America. In fact 2/3 of all illegal aliens who are in the United States are from Mexico or Latin America. Most of the illegal aliens are from their lower classes. Most do not even have a high school diploma. The large number of unskilled, low class, poorly educated illegal aliens from Latin America has turned America upside down.

What if these 20 million illegal aliens were not from Latin America? What if they were from China, or Russia or Eastern Europe, or Africa? But they were still from their lower class, poorly educated and unskilled? Would the impact they have on America be any different?

Does the fact that the people who are our illegal immigrants are from Latin America make any difference regarding their disruption to our society? Maybe the fact that THE MAJORITY of our illegal aliens are from Latin America is actually good. If they were from Asia or Africa maybe it would be even more disruptive to America? What do you think?
Mmmm... I am not so sure about that.

These hypothetical other groups of illegals from other parts of the world generally do not have an axe to grind with us. The Chinese do not think that we stole their land, Polish people do not feel that they are the true 'owners' of this continent and Nigerians probably are not going to demand that all communications be in their native tongue so that they do not need to learn English. I just do not see Koreans or Rumanians stomping on the US flag as other ethnic groups have been known to do. IMO, these longstanding grievances, whether justified or not, coupled with groups like NCLR and MALDEF who simply fan the flames equals trouble in the long term.

Twenty million poorly educated, unskilled people from anywhere are going to cause tremendous problems. However, if they do not arrive with a grudge and an attitude of entitlement they would not generate the amount of hostility our present day illegals do.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Mmmm... I am not so sure about that.

These hypothetical other groups of illegals from other parts of the world generally do not have an axe to grind with us. The Chinese do not think that we stole their land, Polish people do not feel that they are the true 'owners' of this continent and Nigerians probably are not going to demand that all communications be in their native tongue so that they do not need to learn English. I just do not see Koreans or Rumanians stomping on the US flag as other ethnic groups have been known to do. IMO, these longstanding grievances, whether justified or not, coupled with groups like NCLR and MALDEF who simply fan the flames equals trouble in the long term.

Twenty million poorly educated, unskilled people from anywhere are going to cause tremendous problems. However, if they do not arrive with a grudge and an attitude of entitlement they would not generate the amount of hostility our present day illegals do.
Excellent points!
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:36 PM
 
709 posts, read 1,541,673 times
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The one nationality that may have an easier time of it if they arrived illegally en masse, would probably being Filipinos; between that nation being a US colony till 1946 and most of them speaking a variant of American English-------------we as a group may cut them some more slack.

Tough to say.
I have been to Daly City, California which has the largest percentage of Filipinos in the United States, and you hear alot more English being spoken on the streets there than you do in majority Hispanic cities like Miami and El Paso.
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:47 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I donít believe 20+ million illegal aliens from ANY country would be welcomed with open arms. After all, it isnít an issue of race/ethnicity -- itís an issue of lawlessness and the destruction of our country. If youíre going to receive a fatal shot to your head, does the race/ethnicity of the shooter really matter?
This, of course, is the 'crux' of the matter. As Frank Carbonni said some weeks ago, "the MAIN problem with massive Mexican immigraton into the US is that it's MASSIVE"....enough said. A few thousand Mexican illegals would NOT cause much alarm....TEN PERCENT of Mexico, though, DOES. Likewise, a few thousand people here from ANYWHERE would not, (and DOES not) raise eyebrows..but ten or fifteen MILLION people, all here from one nation, most of them illegally....WOULD be cause for alarm, regardless of WHO they were.

In the game of "what if", ANY thing is possible. But the real world isn't 'what if'.
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Old 05-31-2009, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John McClane View Post
I have been to Daly City, California which has the largest percentage of Filipinos in the United States, and you hear alot more English being spoken on the streets there than you do in majority Hispanic cities like Miami and El Paso.
Interesting.

Daly City used to have a heavy Hispanic presence 30 years ago and it looks like the Filipinos pushed many of the former out.
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