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Old 05-31-2009, 08:52 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 7,566,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Apples and oranges.

The Irish immigrants were usually legal----------------can the same be said about Mexican ones?

apples in oranges when initially they did cause alot of trouble and faced the same prejudices?
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:03 PM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,492,555 times
Reputation: 1908
Good point. What's being said about Hispanic immigrants has basically been said of almost every immigrant group to ever come here.

"They don't respect the culture."

"They take our jobs."

"They live a dozen to a house"

"They're unsanitary."

"They prey on our women."

"They're only loyal to their homeland." Or the Catholiphobe variant, "They're loyal to the Pope."
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:16 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post

A Hispanic who overstays his visa isn't that different than a Hispanic who is still on his visa, at least in regards to businesses marketing to them, and their preference for Spanish.

.
Look...I hate this whole ugly issue as much as you do..it affects me and my family....personally. But look at your OWN WORDS, above. We are a nation of LAWS, and little else..our LAWS are just about the only thing holding us together as a society...yet you say (ABOVE) THAT there's little difference between a LEGAL and an ILLEGAL Hispanic.....Well, that's GREAT, I suppose, if you're Hispanic....but how do you expect the REST of us to see that remark? As a matter of fact, that's exactly what so many people on this forum already suspect....that some 'Hispanics' will be tempted to put ethnic solidarity over the 'law of the land'. They'll see "little difference" between THEMSELVES, and illegals....well, I have news for you...some of the most disagreeable people on the forum say EXACTLY the same thing...they, too, see little difference between 'legals' and illegals.

Glad YOU said it, and not I...but seriously, with all respect to you....how would you expect this to sound to those on the forum who are NOT Hispanic? It's a fair question....
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:23 PM
 
223 posts, read 253,980 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Look...I hate this whole ugly issue as much as you do..it affects me and my family....personally. But look at your OWN WORDS, above. We are a nation of LAWS, and little else..our LAWS are just about the only thing holding us together as a society...yet you say (ABOVE) THAT there's little difference between a LEGAL and an ILLEGAL Hispanic.....Well, that's GREAT, I suppose, if you're Hispanic....but how do you expect the REST of us to see that remark? As a matter of fact, that's exactly what so many people on this forum already suspect....that some 'Hispanics' will be tempted to put ethnic solidarity over the 'law of the land'. They'll see "little difference" between THEMSELVES, and illegals....well, I have news for you...some of the most disagreeable people on the forum say EXACTLY the same thing...they, too, see little difference between 'legals' and illegals.

Glad YOU said it, and not I...but seriously, with all respect to you....how would you expect this to sound to those on the forum who are NOT Hispanic? It's a fair question....

What the hell are you taking about?
I'm talking about businesses MARKETING to the Spanish-speaking public. WHEN IT COMES TO MARKETING, there isn't that much difference between legal and illegal Hispanics.
You know...not the law..the LANGUAGE?
You're rant against "ethnic solidarity" is misplaced. I would say that I must have hit a nerve, but it looks like that nerve's been in pain already, and you were just waiting for the first chance to vent about it. All the way from out of left field.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:23 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
Legal Hispanics, illegal Hispanics, American born Hispanics often live in the same communities. They are often "targeted" collectively by PR agencies of corporations. Whether they are legal or illegal has nothing to do with the whole language marketing thing.
You are making a distinction where there isn't one.

A Hispanic who overstays his visa isn't that different than a Hispanic who is still on his visa, at least in regards to businesses marketing to them, and their preference for Spanish.

I don't see how anyone could logically make that point..unless they believe "illegals" are a separate race that are inherently "bad people", so legals learn English, and illegals don't. That's another one of those pesky generalizations. In reality, it comes down to the individual. Some legals don't wholeheartedly accept English(of ANY race), some illegals will..especially those raised here most of their lives. And residing here without documents doesn't say as much about an individuals character as you guys make it out to be.

That's an example of how a legitimate issue is made emotional by you guys.
It says a great deal about a person's character. It says they feel the rules everyone else is expected to abide by in order to have a functional society do not apply to them. It says they are only concerned about themselves and what they can get, they do not care if their illegal presence is a net negative for everybody else. They display an attitude of entitlement, they see themselves as deserving of the benefits of US citizenship in spite of the fact that they have done nothing at all to earn those benefits. They feel various ethnic grievances permit them to circumvent the legal immigration process. In other words it is all 'take' and no 'give'. It has always been that way. Why tolerate a group of people whose only goal is to get their hands on as much as they can?.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:26 PM
 
223 posts, read 253,980 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Look...I hate this whole ugly issue as much as you do..it affects me and my family....personally. But look at your OWN WORDS, above. We are a nation of LAWS, and little else..our LAWS are just about the only thing holding us together as a society...yet you say (ABOVE) THAT there's little difference between a LEGAL and an ILLEGAL Hispanic.....Well, that's GREAT, I suppose, if you're Hispanic....but how do you expect the REST of us to see that remark? As a matter of fact, that's exactly what so many people on this forum already suspect....that some 'Hispanics' will be tempted to put ethnic solidarity over the 'law of the land'. They'll see "little difference" between THEMSELVES, and illegals....well, I have news for you...some of the most disagreeable people on the forum say EXACTLY the same thing...they, too, see little difference between 'legals' and illegals.

Glad YOU said it, and not I...but seriously, with all respect to you....how would you expect this to sound to those on the forum who are NOT Hispanic? It's a fair question....
And by the way, I see my country as more than just being held by "laws"
You don't sound like you have very much faith or pride in our country, and that's too bad. Your loss.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:27 PM
 
223 posts, read 253,980 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
It says a great deal about a person's character. It says they feel the rules everyone else is expected to abide by in order to have a functional society do not apply to them. It says they are only concerned about themselves and what they can get, they do not care if their illegal presence is a net negative for everybody else. They display an attitude of entitlement, they see themselves as deserving of the benefits of US citizenship in spite of the fact that they have done nothing at all to earn those benefits. They feel various ethnic grievances permit them to circumvent the legal immigration process. In other words it is all 'take' and no 'give'. It has always been that way. Why tolerate a group of people whose only goal is to get their hands on as much as they can?.
Yeah, okay.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:37 PM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,116,578 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost View Post
Good point. What's being said about Hispanic immigrants has basically been said of almost every immigrant group to ever come here.

"They don't respect the culture."

"They take our jobs."

"They live a dozen to a house"

"They're unsanitary."

"They prey on our women."

"They're only loyal to their homeland." Or the Catholiphobe variant, "They're loyal to the Pope."
YES, but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that many Hispanic Immigrants arrive in this country ILLEGALLY from Mexico.. The dirty secret is that a majority of Illegal Immigrants come from Mexico.. The backlash and anger would be similar IF it were ANY other group regardless..

You also failed to mention the strain on social services and taxpayers that are a result of said illegal aliens..
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:38 PM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,116,578 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by macjr82 View Post
apples in oranges when initially they did cause alot of trouble and faced the same prejudices?
LEGALLY being the key word in AZ Bear's post.. LEGALLY, they did NOT sneak over a fence and cut in line ahead of millions of other immigrants that play by the rules, learn the language, and DESIRE to assimilate and be a part of America..
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:51 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
And by the way, I see my country as more than just being held by "laws"
You don't sound like you have very much faith or pride in our country, and that's too bad. Your loss.
OK...so you tell ME..how is the US, as a society, 'held together'?....by our common ethnicity? By common religious belief? By our common language? By our common culture? By our common race? By political principle? By 'patriotism'? If not by some abstract notion, such as a "law", voluntarily adhered to by all, then how ARE we 'held together'?...by force? By intimidation? Because we all just 'like each other'? By the 'force of personality' of some 'leader'?

The US is a 'man-made' construct, put together on paper...it's not a hereditary society...we are not an 'ethnic group' . So how are we held together..unless by voluntary laws and statutes?

I have PLENTY of pride in our country....because it's US who make it work....not some dictator or tyrant. And it WORKS, because we agree to abide by the laws that WE OURSELVES wrote..not because we're FORCED to obey.

I rest my case..and my computer. No point in arguing this further. Your opinion is your business.

Last edited by macmeal; 05-31-2009 at 10:59 PM..
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